Overwhelmed by leather Sewing machines

[Starwind0]

People are asking for more detail on what I want to make with it. I currently have 3 different belt projects I'm doing. I make a new wallet every few months. Lots of watch bands but I'm fine doing those by hand. I'm making suspenders. I want to make a right weight vest for dancing. Making a daily bag is the real impetus for this purchase. Sometimes I make laptop sleeves. 

 

Thread size I couldn't really say. I like finer stitch lengths but use a good medium thread. 

[Starwind0]

8 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The Consew 206RB-5 is a leather sewing machine for thicknesses not exceeding 3/8 inch and thread sizes not exceeding #138. It is fine up to those limits.

Personally, having sewn many double leather belts and more holsters than you can shake a stick at, I use a Cowboy CB4500 for that kind of work. It uses thread sizes 138 and UP, with thicknesses up to 7/8 inch. I have a several medium duty walking foot machines for lighter, thinner work and thinner thread.

In case you are wondering about how thin you can sew on a CB4500, or its little brother the CB3200, I have hemmed jeans and chaps on mine. There is a trick to it though. You remove the throat plate and feed dog and install the flat slotted plate instead (to prevent the cloth and soft leather from getting pushed into the feed dog hole and its rectangular slot). Then fit a #20 needle, thread it with #92 bonded, or #105 polycore jeans thread and stitch away.

Yeah the problem is that's going to cost me 3k to aquire. Which is more than my ultimakers 2+ extended 3d printer. If I found one used.. but anything over 1.5k is a burden. 

[brmax]

There are some great replies in the post above, and a spot on reply particularly mentioning two or another machine to do the other work.

Welcome to the hunt that many of us find part of the fun. In all this fun and your present projects, you need or want a machine.

These “machine” sewing threads that are optional for us only fit certain size machines no matter what. It would benefit you to pick only one to use per machine, honestly at this stage its a tip!

Having a bit of help sorting these sizes can be extremely helpful, though sometimes seem brutally honest. Especially when we think we can use one machine for many projects. 

Its tough but really is a benefit, and thats finding your budget no matter what.. followed by thread size.  This now is an automatic what and what cannot be your projects. 

 

Have a good day

Floyd 

[Starwind0]

I feel like I'm not communicating my use right.. let me present it a bit differently. 

I am looking for a machine that will allow me to do projects of 3 mm to at most 7 mm layers of leather.

Types of leather is Oak Leaf. Calf Skin (usually as liner), and more bag type pull up leather or rustic style leathers -- veg-tans. 

The only still labeled thread I have on my desk is 0.55mm. I would say that is 50% too small. Anything over 0.9mm would be more than adequate for my needs, and 1.5mm is too big. Anything that needs to be extra pretty, will be done by hand.

I do not need to do thick projects  like holsters. My impetus is, I don't want to do any more 1500+ stitch belt / strap style projects. They never get done. I also want to make a bag, but also don't want to do 4000+ stitches at weird angles by hand.

Cheap is fine. I started looking when that cobbler hand crank sewing machine started hitting youtube. But the price shot up and the build quality were too low. 

It's not an issue of can I come up with the funds, its more I don't think its' responsible for me to spend 3k on a hobby toy, I'm not a pro, I make no money. 

Seriously, why isn't there just cheap human powered ones... Or really slow ones. Industrials seem like such overkill. 

[Wizcrafts]

On 7/28/2019 at 4:41 AM, Starwind0 said:

The only still labeled thread I have on my desk is 0.55mm. I would say that is 50% too small.

I strongly recommend that you read this handy thread and needle chart to see the sizes of thread you are saying are too small. By my reckoning, .55mm is a little bigger than #207 (T210) bonded thread. If that is 50% too small, the closer size would be either #415 or #554. These are equivalent to 6 and 8 cord linen thread. #207 is close to 3 cord linen.

Now that the desired thread sizes are defined, it's time to narrow the field of available machines that can handle those sizes. Right off the bat, remove all tailoring and upholstery class machines. Gone! These max out with between #69 and #138 thread. Some high end Jukis and their clones can manage #207 on top and one Juki can handle it both on top and in the bobbin (LU-1508NH: about $2600). But, that is still 50% too small for your projects.

So, what class of sewing machine can actually handle #415 thread? That would be the 441 class. This is based on the Juki TSC-441. It is similar in specs to the discontinued Adler 205-374. It also includes some famous and very expensive needle and awl harness stitchers. I will link to a few examples below. These are the types of sewing machines you need to sew with 6 to 8 cord, or #415 to #554 bonded thread:

• Juki TSC-441 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Adler 205-374 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Adler 989 ECO (bonded T410/#415 max)
• The Cowboy CB4500 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• The Cobra Class 4 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Techsew 5100 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• The Artisan TORO-3200 or 4000 (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Cowboy Outlaw hand cranked leather stitcher (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Boss hand cranked leather stitcher (bonded T410/#415 max)
• Campbell-Randall Lockstitch (#415 bonded, or 8 cord waxed linen)
• Union Lockstitch Machine (#554 bonded or 8 cord waxed linen)
• Landis 3 harness stitcher (obsolete)
• Landis 12 series sole stitchers
• American Straight Needle sole stitcher
• Frobana/Pederson hand cranked sole stitcher
• Junker and Ruh hand lever sole stitcher

[kgg]

9 hours ago, Starwind0 said:

I do not need to do thick projects  like holsters.

Wiz has picked up on the thread size you plan on using. Why do you need such heavy thread, is it just for looks on your projects.

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Right off the bat, remove all tailoring and upholstery call machines. Gone!

You are going to need heavy iron to punch through with those large diameter needles that will be needed for those size threads.

kgg

[Starwind0]

That's a good point. I'm basing it off looks and the spacing on my hand sew pieces. I don't care about looks in this case. You are right

 

Someone is offering a local Techsew 2700 pro walking foot for 2k, with all the bells and whistles. Says it's brand new but not the right machine for them. Thoughts? Price is higher than I want for a used machine but would cost me close the 3k with tax and shipping new. 

[Matt S]

No matter what machine you choose, I think you're going to struggle using v415 thread on wallets and watch bands. Machines simply can't sew thin stuff with thick threads. Big threads need about 4 thread diameters of thickness to hide the knot inside the work.

[Wizcrafts]

I have a TS 2700. It is a fine walking foot machine for thread up to #138 and no more than 3/8 inch seams.

[Wizcrafts]

The OP isn't aware of how lockstitches are formed yet. Here is an animation showing how the top thread picks up the bottom thread as it goes around the bobbin and draws the tow threads up between the layers.

The way lockstitches are formed requires enough material over and under the knots to conceal them (aka: bury the knots). First, the needle must be wide enough to open a hole large enough for the overlapped threads. That may be 2 to 3 times the diameter of the biggest thread. Then the thickness of the material has to fully bury those overlapped knots. That is often 4 times the size of the knots. So, a 1mm diameter thread requires a needle about 3mm diameter and the material/leather would have to be at least 6mm thick.

By comparison, when hand sewing an over/under saddle stitch, a 1mm thick thread will look beautiful on  both sides in 4 to 6 ounces of leather. That's because there are no overlapping knots to deal with.