Can you help me understand the difference between the juki dnu1541s and the juki du1508ns?

[Silverd]

Hi Wizcrafts

Can you help me understand the difference between the juki dnu1541s and the juki du1508ns?

 

Silverd

[kgg]

I think the Juki LU-1508NS is a more sturdier built machine then the Juki DNU-1541S made for heavier needs. When I was looking for a new machine what I found when comparing the machines the differences to be were:

Cost: Juki DNU-1541S ~ $1800 US vs Juki LU-1508NS ~$2600 US

The Juki DNU-1541S is lighter built machine and weights in at over 13 lbs lighter  (80.5 lb vs 93.7 lb) then the Juki LU-1508NS.

Both look almost identical except the the bed size of the Juki DNU-1541S is 1.6 inches smaller then the Juki LU-1508NS, (477x178mm vs 517mmx178mm)

Both have the same max thread size of V138. If you need / like to go to V207 you have to move up to the Juki LU-1509n

Both use the same needle system 135x16/17 and both have the same max stitch length of 9mm forward / reverse

The Juki 1541 S has a lower presser foot lift by knee 16 vs 18mm then the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a horizontal axis hook assembly vs the vertical of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a greater needle distance to machine arm of 264mm vs 255mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a smaller needle bar stroke of 36mm vs 38mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a shorter amount of altering vertical movement of 2.5~6.5mm vs 2.5~8.5mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

kgg

 

 

 

[brmax]

Silverd: its a bit like mentioned in the prior postings, both are in the upholstery class. Many in canvas as I use them, they have a bit newer design in some ways. As in the way the feed mechanism rotates; a more square if ya will. 

In any case the Juki 1508 is a “Top” load bobbin. Where as the Juki 1541 is in laymen term a “ Side “ load bobbin, so in short order learning to load from underneath left and above your left knee. Its as said learned in short order and not at all an issue. They are both superb machines from Japan and both copied through out the world. I suppose for a reason. 

In any event they both are most likely lite for the present discussion, regards to the current project photos posted. Its a struggle to select a machine, but one will be forced to select projects best suited to the machine no matter what the operator wants. And thats funny  And Im still struggling to conform  

good day

Floyd

[SARK9]

41 minutes ago, brmax said:

In any case the Juki 1508 is a “Top” load bobbin. Where as the Juki 1541 is in laymen term a “ Side “ load bobbin,

.....And the 1508 has the larger *U* style bobbin. where the 1541 is an *M* style.

-DC

Edited July 29, 2019 by SARK9

[Wizcrafts]

On 7/28/2019 at 12:43 PM, Wizcrafts said:

LU-1508NH: about $2600

I was out by about $800 on the price of this machine. They sell in the mid-3ks. This sub-model NH is different than the simple N or NS. It is factory modified to use the longer System 190 needles, has a longer stroke and sews up to a full half inch with #207 thread, top and bottom. Below is a quote of the specs compared to the regular 1508N and NS...

The H in 1508H means very heavy duty, with longer stroke 190R Needles which allows for thicker fabrics and higher foot lift, a bigger hole in needle plate for thicker threads, and bigger teeth on the feed dogs which allow better feeding on thicker fabrics, etc compared to 1508N and 1541N that take shorter stroke 135x17 needles.

N Stands for the Color: White
H Stands for Extra Heavy Duty 10-15% heavier duty than the Standard NS Version, with a longer needle and higher stroke.
 

[Silverd]

 

 

22 hours ago, kgg said:

I think the Juki LU-1508NS is a more sturdier built machine then the Juki DNU-1541S made for heavier needs. When I was looking for a new machine what I found when comparing the machines the differences to be were:

Cost: Juki DNU-1541S ~ $1800 US vs Juki LU-1508NS ~$2600 US

The Juki DNU-1541S is lighter built machine and weights in at over 13 lbs lighter  (80.5 lb vs 93.7 lb) then the Juki LU-1508NS.

Both look almost identical except the the bed size of the Juki DNU-1541S is 1.6 inches smaller then the Juki LU-1508NS, (477x178mm vs 517mmx178mm)

Both have the same max thread size of V138. If you need / like to go to V207 you have to move up to the Juki LU-1509n

Both use the same needle system 135x16/17 and both have the same max stitch length of 9mm forward / reverse

The Juki 1541 S has a lower presser foot lift by knee 16 vs 18mm then the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a horizontal axis hook assembly vs the vertical of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a greater needle distance to machine arm of 264mm vs 255mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a smaller needle bar stroke of 36mm vs 38mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

The Juki 1541 S has a shorter amount of altering vertical movement of 2.5~6.5mm vs 2.5~8.5mm of the Juki LU-1508NS

kgg

 

 

 

KGG:   Very helpful review.  Thank you.

Most significant relevance to my application regarding the differences may be  bobbin size.   I understand from reading marketing information that one machine will pick-up the lower thread without removing the work piece should the bobbin run dry midstream...   If the 1541S accomplishes this feat it would be a nice alternative to the larger bobbin offered on the 1508.   Another nice feature of both these (light version) machines are their 441 compatible needle systems.  This simplifies life in my shop to a degree since I own a 441.   And lastly my application need is to so sew wallets / hand bags etc and as such either would appear to work.

Another short string of questions I have on same topic is with respect to the previous Juki model LU-563.  What is the current production equivalent?   How does the bobbin size of the 563 compare with the 1541S and 1508?   There is not an advantage the 563 has over one of the current production models is there?   From a product / manufacture / good business view it would not make sense to redesign a complete new family of products with actual lesser capability or reliability.   Yet a well used 563 sells for about the same as a slightly used 1541S.  

 

Silverd

[mikesc]

Any machine which has a horizontal axis ( under the table bobbin ) will let you change bobbins without removing the work from the table..
But you'd still have to stitch backwards and then forwards to "lock off" the ends of what ran out..

One thing that you can get away with on a horizontal axis bobbin is running occasionally thicker thread than is recommended, because you don't have the problem of very little "clearance" between the bobbin carrier and the sliding plate that covers it..Given taht you also have a441 , that may not be important to you , but may also be worth bearing in mind..You wouldn't want to try going bigger / thicker than 207 if the recommended max is 138, but a horizontal axis ( vertical bobbin ) model is more "forgiving" that way..of course you won't get a lot of 207 on the bobbin, but...

Changing bobbins from underneath ( "blind", by touch alone ) is easy to get used to..and in most horizontal axis bobbin machines, there is a sliding cover to the left of the needle that you can slide away for practice of that "change" , without any work on the table ..

[Silverd]

The 1541 will handle 138 top and bottom okay?   I would need that for sure with little performance compromise.   69- 138 is about all I will be using this machine for.

 

Silverd

[kgg]

51 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Changing bobbins from underneath ( "blind", by touch alone ) is easy to get used to..and in most horizontal axis bobbin machines, there is a sliding cover to the left of the needle that you can slide away for practice of that "change" , without any work on the table ..

I have a 1541S and hate trying to change the bobbin from underneath. My fingers / hand are to large to get the darn thing in properly, so for me I just remove the knee lift and tilt the machine back. I need the extra hand space and I can see that the bobbin / case are seated properly.

2 minutes ago, Silverd said:

The 1541 will handle 138 top and bottom okay?

My 1541S will handle V138 top and bottom but prefers either V69 top / bottom or V92 top / bottom which are both within the sweet spot. I have also used on occasion with no problems V92 top with V69 bottom and V69 top with V92 bottom. Why, just to lazy to change the bobbin out. I haven't had the need really to spend the time to tweak the machine for V138 as for my stuff either V69 or V92 works. I have even tried V46 which is the bottom end thread size for both the 1541S and the 1508n. Yes V46 will work but it posed just as many problems, just different, as when using the V138. I cann't really think of a good reason why someone would try to use V46 thread with the aggressiveness of these machines feeding systems.

kgg

[mikesc]

I'm big(ish) with hands etc to match.. ( glove size 10 or 11 depending on who makes them, long fingers, my main business is drawing, painting, sculpture, shoes size 13,14 or up depending* ) I discovered on my Juki it was easier to put the bobbin in the bobbin holder, then flip out the arm on the bobbin holder and put the entire thing in like that, then close the lever once it was in the hook..then I practised with my eyes closed ( no distractions ) ..after 15 minutes , no problems..no dropped bobbins..now :)

* going to begin making my own..getting harder to find my size here..specially in sandals or work boots..baskets etc,I destroy them in less than a month, maybe I should lose weight, and yet I walk light for a big guy..but the new kind of soles either spilt across the foot or collapse inside.

re changing bobbins out for different thicknesses..best to get more than one bobbin holder and set the springs of each one to a specific thread thickness..saves time on change over, less frustrating..and above all no risk of losing those little itty bitty screws that adjust the bobbin springs..

Edited July 30, 2019 by mikesc

[kgg]

5 hours ago, mikesc said:

then I practised with my eyes closed ( no distractions ) ..after 15 minutes , no problems..no dropped bobbins..now

Believe me I have tried. Not that the hands are that big per say but thick fingers. A couple of years ago I had a Singer featherweight too see what all the fuss was about the featherweights. Nasty little machine. To get the bobbin in it was easier to flip it over with the front folded up and with a old VS machine had to use large twisters to get the long bobbin in.

5 hours ago, mikesc said:

but the new kind of soles either spilt across the foot or collapse inside.

I think their isn't enough rubber for flexibility in the soles anymore like there use to be. If you have a good pair of work boots and can find someone to make soles from an old car tire they will outlast the uppers. Finding someone able and willing to cut soles with the heavy iron to sew them on maybe a problem.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, Silverd said:

Another nice feature of both these (light version) machines are their 441 compatible needle systems.

There is a conflict in that statement. The 441 machines (e.g., Juki TSC-441, Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4) use System 7x3, 7x4 or 794 needles, which are about 2.6 inches from the butt to the end of the tip. The walking foot Juki 1541 and 1508 use System 135x16 or 135x17 which are about 1.75 inches long. The LU-1508NH uses a 3/16" longer System 190 needle. These are all much shorter than the needles 441 class machines use.

[Silverd]

Ok...yes I understand.  Not sure why I thought they use the same system.

 

So will the 1541 handle 138 thread ok?

Silverd

[Wizcrafts]

On 7/29/2019 at 11:43 AM, Silverd said:

Hi Wizcrafts

Can you help me understand the difference between the juki dnu1541s and the juki du1508ns?

 

Silverd

Sorry for answering out of sequence. I am just catching up on this forum.

The DNU-1541 is a lighter duty and weight version of the LU-1508 series. It uses a horizontal axis M style bobbin that is 25.5 x 10mm. The 1541 uses standard walking foot system 135x16 and 135x17 needles. They max out at 3/8" and #138 thread.

The LU-1508 is the follow-up to the discontinued LU-563. They use "double capacity" U size Juki bobbins that are 28mm x 11mm in a vertical axis hook (drop in). The double capacity is referring to the standard G size bobbins used in the Singer 111 walking foot machines. 1508N and NS use System 135x16/17 needles. The 1508NH uses longer System 190 needles, allowing it to sew almost 1/2 inch with up to #207 (T210) thread. Some dealers alter these machines to use easier to find and shorter System 135x16&17 needles.

 

[chrisash]

12 hours ago, mikesc said:

* going to begin making my own..getting harder to find my size here..specially in sandals or work boots..baskets etc,I destroy them in less than a month, maybe I should lose weight, and yet I walk light for a big guy..but the new kind of soles either spilt across the foot or collapse inside.

Have you tried jallatte safety boots, they are worth the money, but not quite as good as they were in the 2000-2010 period, best selling boot to the oil industry who give them a bit of stick

 

[Silverd]

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Sorry for answering out of sequence. I am just catching up on this forum.

The DNU-1541 is a lighter duty and weight version of the LU-1508 series. It uses a horizontal axis M style bobbin that is 25.5 x 10mm. The 1541 uses standard walking foot system 135x16 and 135x17 needles. They max out at 3/8" and #138 thread.

The LU-1508 is the follow-up to the discontinued LU-563. They use "double capacity" U size Juki bobbins that are 28mm x 11mm in a vertical axis hook (drop in). The double capacity is referring to the standard G size bobbins used in the Singer 111 walking foot machines. 1508N and NS use System 135x16/17 needles. The 1508NH uses longer System 190 needles, allowing it to sew almost 1/2 inch with up to #207 (T210) thread. Some dealers alter these machines to use easier to find and shorter System 135x16&17 needles.

 

Great information.  It certainly clears things up for me.  I like the idea of the bigger drop in bobbin but I may have to settle for the liggter system.  Have an opportunity to pick up a new 1541S complete for a very good price and if it will sew T138 it should serve my needs.  

Thank you

Silverd

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Silverd said:

Great information.  It certainly clears things up for me.  I like the idea of the bigger drop in bobbin but I may have to settle for the liggter system.  Have an opportunity to pick up a new 1541S complete for a very good price and if it will sew T138 it should serve my needs.  

Thank you

Silverd

It really boils down to what you need to sew and how many machines you can afford to buy. When I first began sewing I had one machine that was inadequate. So, I bought another head that would drop into the same table and just moved the knee lever to fit either head. Later on I bought another heavier duty machine that still dropped into the same table but required a different knee lever. Then I got into the big machines.

[Silverd]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 8:52 AM, Wizcrafts said:

It really boils down to what you need to sew and how many machines you can afford to buy. When I first began sewing I had one machine that was inadequate. So, I bought another head that would drop into the same table and just moved the knee lever to fit either head. Later on I bought another heavier duty machine that still dropped into the same table but required a different knee lever. Then I got into the big machines.

Great story Wizcrafts...

I made the purchase of a DNU-1541S with servo & table yesterday.  Drove 3 hours both ways to the owners home.  Have to say I'm not super happy with the deal that went down.  The problem with investing travel time in used equipment is that it suggests you are committed to bringing it home and reduces your ability to negotiate.  This machine did not sew when I arrived.  I brought thread and sample leather to evaluate it with. Spent 2 hours attempting to get it to make a stitch.  Its a newer machine and should work pretty well without a lot of fanfare but that was not to be.  Finally got it working and did bring it home but it was a painful experience.  Spent the evening cleaning and lubricating.  Top tension wire spring and pulley needed fixing, there was no tension release rod for some reason so I made one out of a modified 441 # 27 needle and generally got it work better but it lays down an ugly back side stitch with 138 thread and # 23 needle.   Achieving sufficient top tension is challenging.  Event after wrapping the thread around and around the guides (as shown in the manual) plus a few more turns and a highly tightened tensioner but still not enough.  #T90 thread is in there now and seems like a better fit but I'm still working out the tension details...Really ugly bottom stitch so some further adjusting to be done or is this just how these machines are?

Silverd  

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Silverd said:

Really ugly bottom stitch so some further adjusting to be done or is this just how these machines are?

I think maybe you could / should start a new topic related to your machine. Add detailed photos of your thread path from the spool to the needle, what the stitching looks like and list what needle (type and size) you are using. That way those of us with a Juki 1541S maybe able to guide you through setting the machine up so it sews properly. Who knows what was done before you got your hands on it.

To answer your question the Juki 1541S will sew a very nice consistent stitch forwards as well as backwards in the same holes.

My experience with bird nesting is that it has more to do with bobbin thread tension issues then top thread tension as long as all the tensioner parts are there. A lot of times it is as simple as the bobbin was been place in the bobbin holder incorrectly so the bobbin thread is unwinding in the wrong direction. Done that more then once when I was in a rush or not paying attention. The needle size should be a 135x 16 for leather or 135x17 for fabric and according to the Toledo Sewing Chart ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html ) you should be using a size 22 / 140 needle for V138 thread.

kgg

 

[brmax]

Maybe posting a photo can help. I will say the top tension knob is highly unlikely to need much tension. With either style of tension plate offered.  I mean they do make thin tension wire springs, but don't think its a standard issue, rather the opposite. 

Its interesting and a bummer to hear that the tensioner doesn't release. Or did not until your repair. I would call and get a few factory parts in short order. Sure cannot hurt a thing. 

With all the excitement it sounds like your on a good path. 

 

Good day to ya

Floyd

[Silverd]

I'll advance your advice.  Thank you.

Silverd

[Silverd]

14 minutes ago, brmax said:

Maybe posting a photo can help. I will say the top tension knob is highly unlikely to need much tension. With either style of tension plate offered.  I mean they do make thin tension wire springs, but don't think its a standard issue, rather the opposite. 

Its interesting and a bummer to hear that the tensioner doesn't release. Or did not until your repair. I would call and get a few factory parts in short order. Sure cannot hurt a thing. 

With all the excitement it sounds like your on a good path. 

 

Good day to ya

Floyd

Thank you.  Very good advice.  I believe the machine will sew to expectationso if set up properly.  I'll post some results later this evening.

 

Silverd

[Silverd]

[Silverd]

TEX90 135/ 16.    I must have needle / thread sizing issues going on.  Looking over the stash of needles that the previous owner provided makes me think she was not fully engaged. .kinda like me!  I'll review my needs more closely.  Foe instance, I have a bunch of 17 needles.

 

[kgg]

Looking at your photo's I noticed the the thread bracket tensioner just before the main tensioner (the one with the white knob):

Your photo shows the metal top of that bracket level with the top of main tensioner black body. I would loosen the screw in the left corner and move that bracket so it is at the 2 o'clock position.

I think you have thread the thread through the square hole of the thread guide that is just before the needle. I found it better to not thread through that square hole.

I would check two things with your bobbin:

With the bobbin case out of your machine and laid in the palm of your left hand with the bobbin facing you. As you pull the end of the thread that is on the outside of the bobbin under the bobbin tension spring the bobbin in the bobbin case holder should rotate counter clockwise.

A starting point for bobbin tension is to hold the end of the thread and see if you can lift the bobbin off the palm of your hand so the hold works can hang there with some slight spinning of the bobbin. If the bobbin spins freely and you can't lift it off your palm then add tension by screwing the tension screw for the spring in but only in 1/8 increments. No movement decrease bobbin spring tension. Every time you change thread spools (new or different colour), thread size, manufacturer or type (nylon vs polyester) check your bobbin tension. Bobbin tension will need to be changed when you make large changes in what you are sewing as well as the presser foot tension.

If you could post a couple pictures of the thread from your spool to the first thread tensioner maybe helpful to spot any other potential problems.

9 hours ago, Silverd said:

Foe instance, I have a bunch of 17 needles.

Do you mean 135 x 17 which is for fabric or do mean you need 135 x 16 for leather or the you have a 135 x 17 in size 17 needle?

kgg