Singer 20U and Premier Chainstitch machine question

[SilverForgeStudio]

Hello folks! 

Looking at a going out of business deal near me for the Singer 29K patcher- guy has a "Bundle of machines" as he puts it... So I am thinking about giving him a price on all 4. I am mainly looking for advice for the chainstitch machine- never used one and dont know the "care and feeding" of this little beastie... I am making a few more canvas and denim bags with leather edging and rims recently and thought I would see if the "roped" chain stitching looked any better- but have never seen one of these machines in action. 

I know the Singer 20U is not the 20u-33 many talk about- but it is a heavier machine than my part-plastic "heavy domestic" modern Singer and should be able to do zig-zag stitching in heavier canvas.

The Premier looks to be a single thread(?) Chain Stitcher- I can not find any real info so I am asking the collective to offer any insight on this machine pros or cons- 

Picture attached- Be safe and have a great day and thanks for looking and if nothing else getting a chuckle out of a guy who didnt know how to sew trying to learn as he goes (and keeping all his fingertips in-tact!) HA! Have a great day!

 

 

[DrmCa]

You do not want chain stitching on any durable goods as they undo as soon as the thread breaks and something pulls on it. It is only good for knits. This Premiere machine is actually for blind-stitching of pants hems and only good for that.

The 20U zigzag machine is a glorified domestic machine on an industrial table, nothing more. You'd get the same performance from a cast iron domestic machine.

Edited August 22, 2019 by DrmCa

[Wizcrafts]

That "Premier" looks to be a Blind Stitch machine, for hemming trousers and lady's skirts. That is its single function. It can only be used on cloth and has a curved needle. Typically they use very thin invisible thread.

[mikesc]

Quote

The 20U zigzag machine is a glorified domestic machine on an industrial table, nothing more. You'd get the same performance from a cast iron domestic machine.

Except it isn't ..and you won't..

Many of us in business ( where you don't keep machines that are of no use in the ateliers ) have both singer 20Us and Singer or other Domestic cast iron machines along with our other Industrial walking foot machines., so we know what we are talking about when it comes to them, Singer 20Us compared to domestic cast iron machines..

If it runs ( the Singer 20U ) and you can get it for a reasonable price..do so..it will be useful when in the atelier with a walking foot machine / machines and a patcher.. the others..No leave them..unless you can get them for a few dollars each, and then break them for parts and sell the parts.

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[DrmCa]

It's great that you know your Singer 20U. Whatever.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Singer 20U made in Japan is really good and hard to find.

Consew Premier 817 is also made in Japan, and is also a really good quality machine.

 

[SilverForgeStudio]

Thank you to Wiz, DRM, and Mike! 

The 29K is my buy- these are basically throw-ins to clear the fellows space.

Since I see his info and the reality of the "Chainstitch" machine are different it is clear he was the inheritor of the shop and never set foot in the back..

[SilverForgeStudio]

2 minutes ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Singer 20U made in Japan is really good and hard to find.

Thanks Gregg! I actually wanted the 20u for canvas- the others are basically toss-ins like above. Any special feet Im looking at for this machine or are these standard?

Do you mind if I PM you about the other players in this "fire-sale" find?

Thanks folks for all the help!

 

[mikesc]

And thank you Gregg When you have actually used or own a Singer 20U you know they are good, I was looking for mine for close to a year, they are like hen's teeth here, travelled 200 kms each way to get it..When I got there the guy pressed the "on" button for the clutch motor, and the blue smoke escaped with a "bang!!"..he looked really sad , and said "now I'm never going to be able to get rid of it, and It is too heavy to take to the dump, ( was on a full size k leg table ) will you take it away for me, for free"..So..of course being the public spirited person I am , I said yes ..it now has the clutch motor from my Singer 211 ( which got a servo motor ) ..when I get the time, I have a servo motor for it..SilverForgeStudio, get the 29K..offer something low for the rest.Count the cash in front of him ...if he sticks, make an offer just for the 29K and the 20U..

 

Just saw you asking about 20U parts..parts are cheap, and 20us are very easy to work on..you can also use them to do freehand embroidery, initials, monograms, and the like ( they are also great for canvas )..you use the knee lift to change the "bight" ( the width of the zig-zag ) by moving the knee lift action bar that is underneath the table  so that it is under the rod which allows you to control the bight dynamically while you are sewing ( without stopping ) ..or you can set the bight and needle position from the top of the machine..you can't do any of that on a domestic cast iron machine, which anyone who has actually used either a Singer 20u or a cast iron domestic machine would know.

 

I don't know ( have never used a Consew Premier 817 ) and If I haven't used a machine, I don't comment on them, but Gregg ( like wiz and Bob and some others here ) has forgotten more about sewing machines than most of us will ever know..so know, so listen to the man :)

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[DrmCa]

And when you will get sick of the short arm and weak take up lever of the 20U, start saving money for a Juki LZ.

[cdthayer]

2 hours ago, mikesc said:

20us.....you use the knee lift to change the "bight" ( the width of the zig-zag ) by moving the knee lift action bar that is underneath the table  so that it is under the rod which allows you to control the bight dynamically while you are sewing ( without stopping )

My 1990s Singer 20U33 has the knee lift function to change the bight on the fly (two little flappers underneath the base and you set your knee lift to activate one or the other), but my older 1960s Singer 20U treadle machine doesn't have that feature. It only has the one flapper to raise the presser foot.

CD in Oklahoma

[mikesc]

Yes, the older ones don't have it..My 20U doesn't say 20U 33, just 20U, never been able to find out why, nor how old it is..So I don't know which was the year that they bought that feature in..Could be that some 20Us have it and others don't , and that all 20U33 models do.

Mine has the twin spool stand that folds up from that back of the machine, and is pale blue, with a whitish stripe with 20U ( no 33 ) the older ones that I have seen , have a single horizontal spool holder mounted on the top of the machine. The bight is 9mm from side to side ( some are smaller )..the harp is 3/4 of standard industrial, two different sets of feed dogs, and two different feed dog plates.The embroidery plate didn't come with it, I made one. They also work pretty well for sewing neoprene, I know people who use them for free form embroidery artwork, and Irish dance motif embroidery ( the much older 107W100 and especially the 107W102 are ideal for embroidery, but very very sought after and cost a great deal more when one can find them ) ..I'd have the use for an older Neechi cast iron triple stitch zig -zag machine too..Another "hens teeth" item

I know that you have put a few machines on treadles that didn't originally have them, was your 20U original with a treadle, or was that a conversion ?

[cdthayer]

I haven’t ever figured out what the sub-model number on my older 20U is either.  I think I may have it narrowed down to either a 20U11 or a 20U13, but that’s only a guess.  It has the horizontal spool pin on top and came to me with only the zigzag foot and needle plate.  It was operated electric in a K-leg power stand with a white Singer top and gray base, and powered by a 110VAC Alphasew clutch motor that I put a 1.5” pulley on (round leather belting) and am using it to power a 1936 Singer 95-40 dedicated to denim jeans hemming and some zipper work on woven fabrics.

I converted the 20U to treadle operation by setting it in an early Singer Industrial Convertible Stand (both small clutch motor power and 16” flywheel. The pitman rod is 2-piece with a coupling nut to switch between electric and flywheel.), an old butcher block top, and swapping a spoked balance wheel onto it from a Singer 66-4, then connecting the pulleys with round leather belting.

CD in Oklahoma

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by cdthayer
Added photo.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

16 hours ago, DrmCa said:

And when you will get sick of the short arm and weak take up lever of the 20U, start saving money for a Juki LZ.

Juki LZ-2280A is not a heavier capacity machine in any way than the Singer 20U.  Both are for garment or textile work and threads.

As for the take up mechanism, I can't think of a better example of a crappy take up design than what's found on a Juki LZ-2280A.  There maybe someone out there who likes the rotary take up on this or any other machine like the Singer 400W, but I have not found one operator or mechanic yet who favors this over a traditional take up lever arm.  

[SilverForgeStudio]

OK so went to get the patcher and 20U today... Bummer news- the fellow sold both for cash before I arrived. The Premier was not operational and had a crack in the housing casting- Im not set up to braze and repair these- he said the K-Table fell over after he took pics- and he didnt "see" any damage... AAARRRGH! 

He just wanted the cash and grab easy sell- Im certainly glad the other guys got a steal (Patcher AND 20U sold TOGETHER for 500 cash).

I did get some sailcloth and heavy canvas. All was not lost- but DANG I HATE GETTING LIED TO! OK- rant over... Thanks for the assistance guys!

Im trying to upgrade my game... the search continues! Hopefully this thread will help someone in the future! GREAT INFO