Contributing Member JLSleather Posted August 30, 2019 Contributing Member Report Posted August 30, 2019 Okay, that was good stuff. Thread about copying others, closed just as I was delivering THE response. Just to good to waste, so I'll put it here. Doesnt matter if nobody reads it... Im usually just talking to myself anyway ________________________ Not enforcing a rule doesn't make you guilty of breaking it. People are shot every day. Prostitutes run rampant (and I hear many dressed like girls arent' even girls ). Illegals jump our U.S. borders at will with kidnap victims and drugs. The fact that I didn't stop them doesn't mean I "condone" any of it. There's a guy right now, claims to be from South Carolina. Got a web site selling holsters, CLEARLY my designs. When asked to make a holster he says he has available, he stalls a bit. When asked about my designs, he claims he's never heard of us (but the design IS mine, so ...). Point being, I don't "condone" that either. He's broken no laws, and really doesn't affect me, so .... I aint sweatin' one dummy. Even that one S O F T boy from TX usedta come round here quite a bit. Suckin' up FREE information, asking all the questions he figured he could slip in, then create a web site where he CHARGES OTHERS for that SAME information he was given for free. Now THAT is a bit abrasive to me. Come ask me for tips and tricks, then try to sell me a subscription to some videos where he shows those tips and tricks WE gave him! Hey, if you don't mind the guy is basically calling you stupid, go sign up! No matter to me. The "kicker"? He sold ("distributed" I believe is the legal term) patterns that contain the i.p. of OTHERS with only slight modification(s) and has the NERVE to add a paragraph about how its unlawful for YOU to copy or distribute "his" patterns! You might recognize this STOHLMAN design? Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Contributing Member fredk Posted August 30, 2019 Contributing Member Report Posted August 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, JLSleather said: There's a guy right now, claims to be from South Carolina. Got a web site selling holsters, CLEARLY my designs. When asked to make a holster he says he has available, he stalls a bit. When asked about my designs, he claims he's never heard of us (but the design IS mine, so ...). Point being, I don't "condone" that either. He's broken no laws, and really doesn't affect me, so .... I aint sweatin' one dummy. Actually, he has, you own the 'intellectual copyright' on your holster designs and he has stolen it from you. But how far can you go to protect your rights. I've been there, almost in court, when someone designed and used a magazine title very similar to the title of a magazine I owned and published. He used the same fonts, the same colours and the same layout design, all he changed was the style of the ' & ' in the title. I went to law, he lost. Its very hard to keep control of a design of something that is a common item. Sometimes the copyright comes down to how the common item is made or presented. 31 minutes ago, JLSleather said: Not enforcing a rule doesn't make you guilty of breaking it. People are shot every day. Prostitutes run rampant (and I hear many dressed like girls arent' even girls ). Illegals jump our U.S. borders at will with kidnap victims and drugs. The fact that I didn't stop them doesn't mean I "condone" any of it. There's a lot of bad in the world. We cannot deal with it all. That is why we employ LEOs and courts. However, if we are in a position to stop or prevent any crime we should try to do so if its within our capabilities - that may mean stopping a shop-lifter physically or just getting the security person onto it, reporting crime to the police. I've prevented minor crimes happening, but when it come to the big stuff I call in the local Plods Only if a person stands by and does nothing when they are in a position to do something then I'd condemn the person In the UK we are very much enabled in protecting artists/artisans/performers/business' copyrights. Its been a while but people used to ask me if I could make a certain 'named' bag or whatever, 'yes, but that is their design sign and I'll not copy it, but I'll make you something that looks similar but is unique' A facetious saying used to be; copy one paragraph - thats plagiarism, copy a chapter - thats research, copy the whole book - thats inspiration Quote Al speling misteaks aer all mi own werk..
mikesc Posted August 30, 2019 Report Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) Nobody said you have to "enforce" any laws, about anything illegal..That is the job of the courts .. Copying any thing without "the express written permission of the copyright owner" is breaking the law, and is illegal.In the USA too. However..if to all of that and the other thread, you say.."walk on by and ignore it"..then you are condoning it. Because you are apparently going to walk on by and say , do nothing, to any IP abuse of your IP, does not mean anyone else should in relation to any abuse of their IP, or anyone else's...You were saying in that thread that we should ignore the thread..that is implicitly condoning the IP abuse..No-one said that you should "stop it". I've been to court too , to protect my IP..five times..and I have won, 5 times, with damages awarded to me.Twice the IP infringers were in the USA. I still won.. There is a huge difference between , thinking you know the law(s) about IP, and actually ( via experience ) knowing the IP laws. You see a rape or a murder happen right in front of you, not on TV..you walk on by ?..because it ain't you ? WTF has the Southern border of the USA got to do with IP abuse and copyright...Nothing, that's what. Edited August 30, 2019 by mikesc Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted August 30, 2019 Author Contributing Member Report Posted August 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, mikesc said: You were saying in that thread that we should ignore the thread..that is implicitly condoning the IP abuse..No-one said that you should "stop it". No, my question was.. what did you hope to gain by continuing to state your position? People will do what they will do. EVEN IF I chose to enforce i.p. "rights", I can only enforce MY OWN. And as for enforcing my own, I PREFER not to. I put a lot of attention to detail in my work. Most don't. So, if someone uses my design, he either puts that same attention to detail in the work (which most wont) or he SHOWS MINE to be superior, which only does me a favor. People see it's the same design, and set together mine clearly stands out. Copying me badly is like free advertising for me. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members chrisash Posted August 30, 2019 Members Report Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) In the UK the laws on copyright have been very poor in some sectors, so that a small design company will make a new dress design and sell it at a few thousand pounds to a few customers and the big clothing companies will bring out a near exact copy but with slightly different material and very minor changes and sell thousands at £20 each, But the general public will see the very strong resemblance and probably call it a copy With many leather items it's hard to make a unique design for the most popular items, a clutch bag or bifold wallet have been made for decades all closely following some one off design many decades ago, leaving very little parts that can be trademarked which seems far stronger than copyright in law Even if designers take action to defend their products they fight a uphill fight unless the person or company copying has the money or assets to make it worthwhile Theft of designs is totally wrong in all circumstances, but unfortunately will never be stopped, just look to history with the similar cars coming out at the same time. But on the other hand there has never been so many designers willing to sell their designs for so little money I for one have learnt a lot by studying other peoples designs but never had the inclination to make a copy Al stohlman made his money selling books and classes, but at this present time his books are available free as e-books with presumably no royalties paid to the family although no doubt Tandy had agreement from the family Edited August 30, 2019 by chrisash Quote Mi omputer is ot ood at speeling , it's not me
mikesc Posted August 30, 2019 Report Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) Jeff..you just said.. 1 hour ago, mikesc said: You were saying in that thread that we should ignore the thread..that is implicitly condoning the IP abuse..No-one said that you should "stop it". Quote No, my question was.. what did you hope to gain by continuing to state your position? the other thread was locked by J..But it isn't gone..so I can quote your post in it's entirety.My bold Quote Reminder from the bleachers ... any time a guy doesn't like the topic or general direction of a conversation, he of she always has the option of simply not participating. Quote Folks, what point to bashing this guy? If you don't want to help him do whatever he's doing, then don't help. Not required. Whatever. There are millions of people ignoring this right now, and they're mostly doing fine. That is not saying.. Quote what did you hope to gain by continuing to state your position? that is saying "walk on by" "ignore the thread"..that is saying do not speak out against IP abuse.. I personally hope to gain nothing..I gain nothing by posting..I only ever asked one question here..my first post..Eventually ( when he saw it ) Eric answered it.since then I have not asked another, I don't need to..I know how to do what I do..I know how to run ( and fix, thanks to Eric ) the machines that I have. But..as someone who is also a designer and a creator..the fact that you are perfectly happy to have your stuff ripped off and to see the work of others being ripped off, does not make it OK for you to tell the rest of us to "ignore the thread"..Because of the huge outcry by those of us who do create and design, gradually the internet giants like Google, facebook and hopefully one day even pinterest, have been told ( only by the EU for now, but, eventually the USA will get around to it too ) that promoting copies and fakes is wrong, and that they as platforms will be held liable for doing so..It stopped Google from copying all the books in the world that they could get, even the ones which were still in copyright, where the authors were still alive, and then making them available for free on line, with adverts around them that companies would pay Google for..Google books still exists..with non copyright books only..and no ads.They knew it was wrong, unethical, and illegal IP abuse, but they only stopped because people ( big name authors, and the little people ) made a fuss..that got heard by their legislators.They Google et al, will no longer have the "get out" of saying that they are not publishers. The copies of my stuff have been done badly , but unless the person buying them knows that they are copies of my work , and then takes the trouble to find the originals and buy them, then that is lost revenue..and is wrong.. Wrong is wrong..Illegal is illegal, I repeat ,with an addition,. You see a rape or a murder happen right in front of you, not on TV..you walk on by, you say nothing to anyone, you don't even call the cops ?..because it ain't you ? Why don't you stamp the Harley Davidson logo on your holsters? Because it would be wrong and illegal, ..or because they might send their lawyers after you, or both ? Or..because you are honest, and it would be wrong and illegal ? Edited August 30, 2019 by mikesc Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted August 30, 2019 Author Contributing Member Report Posted August 30, 2019 I perceive that you... .......... like to talk. I will take my own advice now, and exercise my option of simply not participating. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
mikesc Posted August 30, 2019 Report Posted August 30, 2019 I like the truth, honesty, and integrity..and respect for the IP of myself and others..and will always "talk" and act, to protect those things. Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
CFM Hardrada Posted August 30, 2019 CFM Report Posted August 30, 2019 Thing with intellectual 'property' is that it's been taken to extremes. Now, as a professional photographer, I'm all for copyright, but frankly, how many ways are there to put things together and make a card wallet? At this rate, we won't be able to have round corners of radius X because someone else 'owns' that design. Quote
mikesc Posted August 30, 2019 Report Posted August 30, 2019 Quote how many ways are there to put things together and make a card wallet? Very very many..as is evidenced by all the very many different designs that there are..with imagination ( as a pro photographer you'll certainly have that ), it is possible to come up with very many more..What is wrong, and illegal, is copying an already existent one, asking for help in doing it, ( dismissing the work designing, cutting and making it as "simple", and yet still asking for help to do it ), the pattern of which wallet ( with instructions ) is for sale for $5.00..with unlimited use, providing one buys the pattern..Or, everyone could just design their own...Intellectual property has not been taken to extremes..only buy those who do not respect the intellectual property of others. Quote At this rate, we won't be able to have round corners of radius X because someone else 'owns' that design. See Apple..IP relating to iphones, specifically about radius x on rounded corners :)..Would you copy an iphone..nope, because you know that they'd come after you..and hopefully, also because you know that it would be wrong..and illegal.. Quote "Don't you know that women are the only works of Art" .. ( Don Henley and "some French painter in a field" )
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