Pfaff 6???

[jshep]

Anyone have any experience with a Pfaff 6?? Not a whole lot of info online about them, but they look like a solid little machine. Wondering if it'd be good for working with leather and canvas or if it's more a light machine? It looks pretty industrial from what I see but it's not a walking foot as far as I can tell. Curious if anyone has used one before?

Edited September 11, 2019 by jshep

[mikesc]

Domestic..tiny "pot" motor..might just sew two layers of 2 oz ( with "skipping" because it is bottom feed only ) ..would sew two layers of 12 oz denim ( like jeans patches ) would not sew across the leg seam if bottom hemming on a pair of jeans.

"It looks pretty industrial from what I see"
What makes you think that ? the fact that it is black and not in a domestic table, and is made of metal? ..Those are no guide to anything industrial..You are perhaps seeing what you want to see..it is cute, if you want to start a collection of old domestic machines, to keep on a shelf.

The electrics are old enough to be dangerous, if you turn it on, wear rubber gloves and rubber soled shoes..and sit on a rubber cushion on a rubber chair..Then again, there is money in rubberwear..but that machine would not sew it. :)

[jshep]

It being black, and cute, has nothing to do with it. It's all metal, and what I could find online it's listed as a commercial grade sewing machine, but I couldn't find much else info on it... which is why I thought I'd see if anyone has worked with one before first hand. I already have a nice Juki that works great, but thought this might be good to have as a back up. No need to be condescending to someone  anyway thanks for taking the time to write a response...

[mikesc]

"online it's listed as a commercial grade sewing machine"
Don't believe everything that sellers of sewing machines write about them..

I was not / am not being "condescending" at all..you wrote ""It looks pretty industrial from what I see"

I asked what made you think that, and I gave you some examples of "things" that would not mean that it was "industrial"..But which you might have been "taken in by"..and which might "take in" others.

So..apart from what some seller wrote ( the lies that sellers of many things, not just sewing machines write on ebay et al would make my cat's hair turn grey with shame ) what did you see that made it look pretty commercial to you ? ..

Bear in mind that when we answer questions here, we are also answering for those who might be reading later..they might well fall into the trap of it is black, metal, and not in a domestic table , thus "it looks pretty commercial" ( for commercial read "industrial") ..nothing wrong with it being cute ( note I did not give the cuteness as one of your possible reasons for thinking it was commercial, you are possibly attributing perceived "sexism" to my comment where there is none..I think it does look cute..:) I think "patchers" look positively steampunk..and I like them all the more for that..Cute is not a disparaging term.. ;)

I have a friend who has a collection of well over a 100 domestic sewing machines..many of them are extremely cute :)

I'm considering "hydro painting" ( dipping , immersing an object into a tank of water that has a design, frequently "swirled paint" floated on the surface so that it wraps the object, think "end pages of old ledgers" ) a Singer 201 that I have that has a badly damaged paint surface..I think it will look extremely cute when done..with a "trippy "edge to the cuteness..I was alive in the 60s ( had and fixed many of my own VWs :) ..and would have loved a swirl wrapped Singer 201 with a treadle ..or better still a swirl wrapped industrial..there is a model of a singer industrial ( which I don't have ) which looks positively "flash Gordon", would look fantastic with a "swirled wrap".. :)

Edited September 11, 2019 by mikesc

[kgg]

55 minutes ago, jshep said:

I already have a nice Juki that works great, but thought this might be good to have as a back up.

If you are looking for a nice backup machine that won't take up much space I would suggest looking for a used portable walking foot machine. Like the Reliable Barracuda, Sailrite, Techsew 611 to name a some.

kgg

[Constabulary]

Scroll down here to Pfaff 6 - maybe google translation will help you

https://www.naehmaschinenverzeichnis.de/verzeichnis-der-naehmaschinen/pfaff-bis-50er-jahre/

Edited September 11, 2019 by Constabulary

[mikesc]

I'd disagree..especially about the sailright..crap..the others I don't know..but if they use the same design..? ..pass..get a real walking foot ( old one ..fix it up, if you do your own engine work on VW aircooled engines then you can fix up a sewing machine easily ) and make it portable..The "heads" of real walking foot machines ( older ones ) weigh less than half of what a VW engine block ( with the cylinders and all the rest off ) does..and the best way to work on any VW air cooled engine is to take it out of the car..fix it..put it back..
That would be a "back up"..that is to say if your Juki broke, while you were fixing it..you'd have another machine.

If by "back up" you mean "complementary" ( can do what the Juki can't do ? ) get a patcher..especially if you are making bags..it can get to where a "flatbed" machine can't ..and a patcher doesn't need to be used on it's stand..so is portable.

Constabulary posted a link ( interesting page..I'll read it later, slowly ;) when I've finished cooking dinner ) while I was typing..my German is rusty ( out of practice for over 50 years, apart from very very occasionally with my son who is "self taught" via TV and Youtube )..But..roughly translated for the sense, Constabulary will correct my errors..or, will translate it properly :)
***********************
Pfaff 6, black

"A special ebay bargain for € 1.00. The pictures were much too dark, the description too sparse, and the auction was only for "buyer collects" ( no shipping ), so I could buy them cheap, sewing machines with hand crank and without table, otherwise they cost more. Even the original tin can and some accessories were included.

It is one of the early 6's, recognizable by its black colour. The case has recesses for the lighting, which are missing from the green 6. This machine lacks the fabric transport recess that the green 6 has.

The machine and also the crank are very well built and everything runs easily. Thanks to the wooden case it is even moderately transportable, but you would not want to travel long distances, as it weighs about 18 kg with case.
***********************
Very rough translation, with some things that I'm not sure of the "sense" / "meaning" in German..but IME , better than Google does.. I actually did not try Google , as Google's French to English ( and vice versa ) is not good..adequate ( sometimes ) ..but not good..

Edited September 11, 2019 by mikesc

[jshep]

What's the issue with the sailrite's walking foot design? 

[mikesc]

It is not their walking foot design which is at fault..although it is not enough to make feet that go up and down to be able to sell them as being comparable to a true walking foot machine..

It is the entire machine.It is "tinny", weakly built, badly finished , inaccurate, and is originally designed as a sewing machine that can do zig zag and straight stitch for using on sail boats to do emergency repairs to sails if there is not a sail maker with true walking foot machines and zig zag machine ( true sail maker's zig zags have three point stitches , three stitches each time they zig" or zag" as a minimum )..available..

It costs nearly as much new, as a new true walking foot clone, actually more than some..and is nowhere near a solid or as accurate..

The Trabant of industrial sewing machines..IMO and IME ( yes I've sewn with one, before saying "no thanks" ) it should not be considered as an industrial machine..and what is worse is there are now "clones" of it..

No professional sail makers , nor professional leatherworkers* use them..Some hobbyists who made the mistake of buying one say they are good, IMO in the hope of persuading someone to buy theirs.

*Professional leatherworker is someone who has a business registration as a leatherworker producing goods, not someone working off the kitchen table or out of the basement who has an etsy shop.

Everyone has to begin somewhere, but there are a great many hobbyists advising as if their experience was that of a professional, some people have the experience, others have read a lot of threads and watched a lot of youtube...happens in a lot of things ( especially anything "craft work" ), not just leather. Everyone has an "opinion" these days.., but would you let them fix your car, your computer, treat you when you are sick, or rewire your house etc..or guide you as to how you should do those things..if they had hardly any experience, other than reading the internet and watching youtube.

Edited September 17, 2019 by mikesc
typos and grammar

[Grantreese57]

jshep

I know I'm a year late, but I have a different opinion than the others. I also have a Pfaff 6 and the manual says it will do canvas, leather, and sacking with a 110 needle and mercerized cotton thread (40). The manual explains how to take the top off and adjust the needle drive for heavier use. The shuttle also has a tension set screw to increase tension as does the thread feed on the front of machine. If you adjust all this and get a 110 needle with heavier thread, then you can do some leather work just fine. You can get the manual for under $6 online and it will explain all this with pictures. 

Pfaff 6 manual (link below) indicated that this straight stitch machine was made with high grade components for industrial use. Do not let anyone tell you that it's too cute to do serious sowing. Granted, it's got limitations, but it's a great machine. We've had ours for 20 years and it's never let us down. In fact, we loved this old machine so much, that I bought a $3000 Pfaff expression quilters model and have had that for 17 years. Absolutely love our two Pfaff machines. 

I also bought a leather patcher from china for $100 because my Pfaff machines are not going to do rubber or shoe leather, of course. 

https://manualsoncd.com/product/pfaff-6-sewing-machine-instruction-manual/

 

[Handstitched]

@jshep I have a Pfaff 60, very similar to the Pfaff 6 . Its a domestic, but a strong one , an no, its not a walking foot. Its a compound feed.  The light is on the inside, not the outside ( like a a Singer)  It's a straight stitch with reverse. 

My Mother used to sew our clothes on it when we're kids, she bought it from new  , but now I use it to sew thin leathers, have been for over 15 years . Mine is quite capable to sew  2-3 layers of upholstery leather or roo hide,goat /pig skin,  but not   much heavier .I've used it to sew different components for wallets etc.  Quite easily sews with M40 industrial  threads . 

The brushes for the motor can be changed without taking the motor apart, just remove a screw, but that maybe on the 60. 

The only thing that has broken are needles, of course, and the occasional rubber belt. The belt is easily bought from any haberdashery . I think the one on mine now is for a ' Husqvarna ' . Bobbins are easy to find, metal or plastic. I'm lucky to have all the original accessories  that came with it, including the metal pedal ( some were plastic, maybe bakelite)  .  Bobbin winder is pretty simple.The metal machine tops comes off for servicing. 

And like all my machines, I keep it well oiled and serviced . It runs like clockwork and its reliable   

HS

[tjspiel]

So I was looking for more information on the Pfaff 6 and this page came up. And I see not only the Pfaff 6 being impugned, but the Sailrite as well. 

I know this thread is old but being a sailer and having done some sail repairs and canvas work, I certainly have an opinion.  ;)

Sailrite

There have actually been several different sailrite sewing machines and basically all of them have been modified versions of somebody else's sewing machine. Sailrite also sells a "professional" model which is more like an industrial machine and can do things like 4 point zig-zags. And while it's true that multi-point zig zag machines have found a home in professional sail lofts, I think that's a fairly recent development, and perhaps limited to very high end/large sails. I don't own a single sail that uses anything other than a simple zig zag, - even my newer ones.

So the idea that you can't make a decent sail without multi-point zig zag simply isn't true. Sailrite's basic zig-zag machine fills a niche and it's hardly just for people wanting a portable sewing machine to keep on their boat for emergencies. If you're interested in the history of the LSZ-1 development, there's a good article here:

https://www.sailrite.com/ultrafeed-history

Obviously all machines are compromises and you give up things when you want the portability that an LSZ-1 provides. And one of the big things you give up is harp or throat size. Even sails for relatively small boats get pretty big and making sails with something like an LSZ-1 will be an exercise in patience and persistence. Making sails for a 60 footer is not going to be practical but the portable Sailrite might still be good for repairs and canvas work on a boat like that.

Pfaff 6

So I've learned some more about the machine from this thread and other places. I do agree that it's basically the same as a Pfaff 60 and I also believe it's a descendent of the Pfaff 30. And while it's clearly not an industrial machine, Pfaff borrowed a lot from its industrial division when designing and manufacturing the internals of the Pfaff 30, - as it did with several other models. It's wasn't unusual to find an old domestic Pfaff mounted on an industrial table with a clutch motor and knee controls.

That said, it is all too common that the word "industrial" gets applied to what is clearly a domestic machine. But some domestics are more heavy duty than others and do actually share things in common with industrial machines, - much like an SUV might have both car and truck like qualities. 

I really can't say how well suited a Pfaff 6 would be for the kind of leather working the original poster had in mind. It might be terrible for that, - at least in its stock form. But it is not a typical domestic machine.

And FWIW, old Pfaffs were (and I think still are) popular machines for liveaboards to keep on their boats. Particularly the Pfaff 130.