Rebadged Singer

[Bellflory]

Hi all, I have another question about the Singer class 17 I'm working on. I saw that it was rebadged while I was cleaning it. The current badge is a 17-23, but I found an old badge in the drawer that read 17-21. My questions are: why would someone rebadge this machine and what might I look for that would be different between the two? It seems like a lot of effort to remove the old badge and install a new one, so someone felt it necessary. Your help is greatly appreciated!

[chrisash]

You can check what one you have here

http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/model-list/classes-1-99.html

[Matt S]

5 hours ago, Bellflory said:

Hi all, I have another question about the Singer class 17 I'm working on. I saw that it was rebadged while I was cleaning it. The current badge is a 17-23, but I found an old badge in the drawer that read 17-21. My questions are: why would someone rebadge this machine and what might I look for that would be different between the two? It seems like a lot of effort to remove the old badge and install a new one, so someone felt it necessary. Your help is greatly appreciated!

17-21 was a two-needle machine, very different to the 17-23. Many different parts, possibly including the main castings. For all intents it would have been impossible to swap a machine between the two designs. Probably just an old thingamebob that gravitated towards the drawer from another machine. Drawers have a magnetic pull on "stuff".

[Constabulary]

Post some pictures so we probably can ID your machine. Could well be that the badge is from a different machine . Maybe one of the former owners (not necessarily the last owner) had different Class 17 machines in use...

6 hours ago, Matt S said:

Drawers have a magnetic pull on "stuff".

So true!    I´m always surprised what I find in my own drawers. 

[Bellflory]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Post some pictures so we probably can ID your machine. Could well be that the badge is from a different machine . Maybe one of the former owners (not necessarily the last owner) had different Class 17 machines in use...

So true!    I´m always surprised what I find in my own drawers. 

 

[Bellflory]

Not sure if you can see it, but a badge has been removed & rivets sanded off. This is the machine where I found it. It cleaned up like a new dime! All is there & tight except for a needle bracket & bobbins. I have to get needles & time it THEN work on the table & mount a servo. I paid $75 and the servo will cost a couple hundred. I'm happy!

[Matt S]

That's an absolute steal at $75. Very handy machines. Good clones (legitimate descendants rather than illegitimate bas... offspring...) of them are made to this day by Seiko, which tells you something -- especially when you look at how old-fashioned the design is. Do you have a year from the serial number?

I'm not convinced about the re-building/re-classing of your machine. It certainly occurred in the past. However for such a drastic change there's a lot of work involved which I would expect to have been more expensive than just buying another single-needle 17. Also Singer would have replaced the class plate in the same position rather than moved it (this has been detected by some collectors/users, sometimes with the original plate flipped and re-marked). What you're probably seeing is the ghost of an old asset or property tag from a previous owner.

Anyway, speculation aside you have a great machine. Wipe it down, oil it, time it (just a needle bar height adjustment IIRC) then run it. Then run it some more.

[Bellflory]

54 minutes ago, Matt S said:

That's an absolute steal at $75. Very handy machines. Good clones (legitimate descendants rather than illegitimate bas... offspring...) of them are made to this day by Seiko, which tells you something -- especially when you look at how old-fashioned the design is. Do you have a year from the serial number?

I'm not convinced about the re-building/re-classing of your machine. It certainly occurred in the past. However for such a drastic change there's a lot of work involved which I would expect to have been more expensive than just buying another single-needle 17. Also Singer would have replaced the class plate in the same position rather than moved it (this has been detected by some collectors/users, sometimes with the original plate flipped and re-marked). What you're probably seeing is the ghost of an old asset or property tag from a previous owner.

Anyway, speculation aside you have a great machine. Wipe it down, oil it, time it (just a needle bar height adjustment IIRC) then run it. Then run it some more.

Thanks for the info Matt. I also bought a Singer 168W101 at the same time. It looks to be complete except for a broken timing belt. The belt is there, so I think I'll try measuring it to find one. SP has one, but it's $100 and that seems a tad expensive.  I'm almost done with the 17, then on to the 168. I also have an old Consew 18 that my mom started business with when I was a kid (a LONG time ago).  How would I date these machines?

[Wizcrafts]

49 minutes ago, Bellflory said:

Thanks for the info Matt. I also bought a Singer 168W101 at the same time. It looks to be complete except for a broken timing belt.

I bought a 168w101 from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. Why don't you call them and ask how much they would charge for a timing belt for it? The number is: 866-362-7397

[Matt S]

I can't find a copy of the 168W parts manual online, but the user manual shows changing the timing belt. I think it's something I would pay a professional to do.

1 hour ago, Bellflory said:

How would I date these machines?

For Singer-produced machines (which both of your machines are, rather than Singer-badged Seikos or Adlers) take the serial number and look it up here: http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html