identifying flaws

[chuck123wapati]

So some tips on identifying flaws in hides would really help me out and I'm sure others also. What to look for in a hide before cutting or purchasing or even flaws in a finished product.  Thanks all for any help you are willing to give.

Edited November 2, 2019 by chuck123wapati
thanks

[billybopp]

Things to look for would include holes, scars, brands, bumps (bug bites), excessively "fuzzy" back, excessive wrinkling, too much uneven coloring (there's likely to be a little),  uneven thickness or excessive uneven hand/stiffness above the expected differences on various areas of the hide (could indicate untanned areas).  Don't worry TOO much about marks or discoloration near the edges, that is to be expected ... A little.  I'm sure others may have a some other things to look out for.

 

-Bill

 

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, billybopp said:

Things to look for would include holes, scars, brands, bumps (bug bites), excessively "fuzzy" back, excessive wrinkling, too much uneven coloring (there's likely to be a little),  uneven thickness or excessive uneven hand/stiffness above the expected differences on various areas of the hide (could indicate untanned areas).  Don't worry TOO much about marks or discoloration near the edges, that is to be expected ... A little.  I'm sure others may have a some other things to look out for.

 

-Bill

 

 

Thank you ! as I posted the question about defining handmade there seemed to be a lot of talk about seeing or finding flaws that you should be able to find easier or more often during the handmaking process that would otherwise be overlooked. I was wondering what these would be?

[battlemunky]

Unless its a really deep scar or branding, I'm more concerned with fuzzy flesh sided leather. Unless I am shooting for clean perfection, bug bites, brands, scratches, range marks, and other "life happened to this thing" marks are kinda cool. I usually don't aim for them but I usually find myself pleasantly surprised by them. I also usually don't get them on most hides unless I'm getting them from Tandy. HO and Acadia are usually pretty free of blemishes on their premium stuff from what I've found. I'm hobby level though and don't move nearly as much as a lot of other folks do but this has been my experience.

[terrymac]

The only flaw that may be the errant stitch(especially on the back) that would show as being handmade. This notion that mistakes are acceptable as a means of identifying an item as being handmade vs. factory is is, in my opinion, is an excuse for substandard work and a cop out.  As Nigel Atrmitage asks " If you can't do it better, than why are you making it?"  Look at some the master's work, you don't find mistakes.

Terry

[billybopp]

In a finished product, I'd look for any or all of the flaws listed above for stated.  There are cases where some of the leather flaws might not be a factor as @battlemunkylisted above might be fine for certain types of items.  They can add character in some items.  Other items, not so much.  The leather should fit the product!  

Things to look for would include: Are the edges even, or were they left uneven and sloppy.  Were the edges finished for an elegant product?  They MIGHT be left raw for something more rustic, which would be fine.   Are the parts consistent and even, or are they sloppy?   Are THOSE edges finished appropriately for the product.  Is the stitching a consistent distance from the edge and straight?  Are the stitches neat and consistent, or are they uneven and not all lying properly?  Did they make the stitching nice and square on a corner that is square, or just sew right around the corner because that's easier.   Is the dye on the leather a consistent color?  Uneven dye might be fine for a rustic item, but it wouldn't be so on a dressy wallet or belt.  Did they use the right type and thickness of leather for the product?  A wallet made from thick leather inside and out can get awfully chunky and heavy, which might be fine for a rugged wallet, but not for an elegant one.    

We could go on about flaws to look for, and I'm sure that others have more ideas to add to the list.  But this list should get you started on some things to look out for.  A few are absolute no-nos for ANY product, but it's mostly more about what is appropriate for the product.

To add a little more, I used to have a friend that worked for a place that made leather seats for auto makers.  He told me that BMW was MUCH fussier about the quality of leather and work in general than was Cadillac, which was pickier than Chevrolet.   The quality and level of finish matched the level of the finished product.  

- Bill

Edited November 3, 2019 by billybopp
Adding a little more

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, battlemunky said:

Unless its a really deep scar or branding, I'm more concerned with fuzzy flesh sided leather. Unless I am shooting for clean perfection, bug bites, brands, scratches, range marks, and other "life happened to this thing" marks are kinda cool. I usually don't aim for them but I usually find myself pleasantly surprised by them. I also usually don't get them on most hides unless I'm getting them from Tandy. HO and Acadia are usually pretty free of blemishes on their premium stuff from what I've found. I'm hobby level though and don't move nearly as much as a lot of other folks do but this has been my experience.

Thank you. 

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, terrymac said:

The only flaw that may be the errant stitch(especially on the back) that would show as being handmade. This notion that mistakes are acceptable as a means of identifying an item as being handmade vs. factory is is, in my opinion, is an excuse for substandard work and a cop out.  As Nigel Atrmitage asks " If you can't do it better, than why are you making it?"  Look at some the master's work, you don't find mistakes.

Terry

I don't know anyone with that notion personally and don't care to. I was asking for more of tips on identifying potential problems in leather before my time is wasted on a bad piece of leather, as we all know substandard products can and do come in many disguises, not only shoddy craftsmanship but subpar materials as well, I think  a very nice machine sewn stitch would hide low grade thread, for example, easier than handstitched, and would be worse even than an errant stitch done by hand. Thank you for your comment. 

[JLSleather]

Leather is a 'natural' product.  But too often that is used as an excuse to sell POO.  All leather is natural, but not all leather is acceptable.  "Marks", brands, scratches, bites, wrinkles.... [supposedly] "add charm" and "character" to the finished goods?  Yeah... maybe you like dents in your car too?  How about hail damage to your home?  That's "natural".. should make your home "worth more" right?  Makes it look "natural" and gives it that "lived in " charm, right? 

That's ridiculous, of course.  That's why tanneries charge more for leather that DOESN'T have these DEFECTS and FLAWS.

I don't think you can find a side of veg cow that doesn't have some wrinkling in the shoulder area (where a cow person might call "withers").  This is natural to the build of the cow.  But those wrinkles are  not the same as "wrinkles" from loose grain, distortion, back bending, etc.  Want to see some acceptable wrinkles incorporated into the design of projects, check out work here by fgabesz - note he's making holsters with it, which wouldn't be subjected to a lot of stretch and tension.

THIS, however, was sent to me by one supplier who advertised and sold it as "hermann oak B grade".  I'm willing to believe that it came from HO, but this is NOT "B" leather... totally unacceptable.  Pathetic even.  I do not see where a guy could cut even a single belt without those 'wrinkles' running across it.  They cut their own throat with this ... they'll never sell me leather again.

[Tugadude]

I, for one, am getting tired of people singling out Tandy.  Am I to believe they are the only supplier that has shipped out questionable hides?  Preposterous.  I don't work for them but have visited at least 4 locations in three states and all had helpful staff and a lot of quality product.  

The question was what to look for, not an opportunity to criticize a vendor.

Some will think I have "thin skin", pun intended, but Tandy has probably started more people in this craft than any other store, book video or whatever.  They deserve some respect for that alone.

Feel free to cast stones now that I've gotten it off of my chest.  Won't bother me.