Looking for long stitch cylinder arms machine

[TonyGreen3455]

Hello!
I'm a newbie on this forum and leather world as well.
Registered here as I'm looking for expert's advice and some recommendation.
I'm looking to buy a machine to make bags, suitcases and different leathercrafts.  Firstly - I know that it is to be a cylinder arms machine. It should have at least 10mm under the foot (by hand or by auto, bigger-better) and be able to create long stitches, longer than 6mm. Servo and positioning a must as well, but I'm pretty sure it can be installed /replaced easily for an extra cost.
I spent a lot of hours googling it, but only I found was some new (Juki, Techsew) machines with such parameters, but they are completely out of my budget. 
So, need your advice please - is there some old-style (up to 30 y.o. ) machines that could suit me, especially in terms of stitch length? 
Do such machines exist at all?
I would prefer some well known Europian or American names, refurbished or used, but quality Chinese or Korean manufactures will not be ignored. 
Any advice and opinions welcome!

[shoepatcher]

Machines that fit the bill:

Older machine

Adler 205 and clones

Juki 441 and clones

Cowboy 3200

Artisan 3200

 

need more specifics     thread size, arm length, 

[TonyGreen3455]

Hi and many thanks for the reply.

High foot clearance and long stitch machines necessary for upholstery mainly and it is included in our business plans as well. 
I've heard from many people that Adler 206 and Juki 441 are heavy machines for heavyweight materials with heavy thread and high tensions and will make a pig's ear of the lighter stuff like bags etc.. So the heavy stitchers are no good on light stuff.
Due to this, I think the 205/441 may be too heavy duty for me, I shall lookout for a more medium-duty machine.
Looks like my Q should be like this -  is there some old-style (up to 30 y.o. ) medium-weight machines with at least 10mm under the foot (by hand or by auto, bigger-better) and which able to create long stitches, longer than 6mm? Something in Adler 269/Pfaff 335 league?

[Rodzhobyz]

Juki 341-1341 or clones if staying with cylinder arm

[Wizcrafts]

Might I ask how wide your projects will extend on the right side from the needle? Also, do you need to sew across the arm (standard and mostly affordable) or up the arm (rare and expensive)? The answers to these questions will help narrow down your list of compatible machines. I do Grok that you don't want or need to use heavy thread or large needles and need a feed system that won't pucker the soft materials.

[TonyGreen3455]

11 hours ago, Rodzhobyz said:

Juki 341-1341 or clones if staying with cylinder arm

Juki 1341 is a reputable machine but has a 6mm stitch length only. 
I found one 341 clone - THOR GC1341 with 9mm stitch length, but it is a quite rare machine in the UK. I would prefer some European makes due to post-sale service availability and delivery price as well. 

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Might I ask how wide your projects will extend on the right side from the needle? Also, do you need to sew across the arm (standard and mostly affordable) or up the arm (rare and expensive)? The answers to these questions will help narrow down your list of compatible machines. I do Grok that you don't want or need to use heavy thread or large needles and need a feed system that won't pucker the soft materials.

Regarding the arm length - I'm sure that normal1341style arm would cover all our needs.  
Regarding threads size - from one side we do not need heavy threads as we no planning to work with heavy stuff (saddles etc.) but... big threads like 277 looking so cool in some decorative cases... so, it is hard to decide... in any case my first choice will be with a long stitch machine, not a thread size. And the feeding system should be able to wok with thin/gentle and hard materials as well. In this case, it looks like we need 2 feed sets - for the soft stuff and leather plus another one for strong fabric materials (straps, canvas, etc.). Or we can use the same, special extra-wide-using one?

[Matt S]

Tony, not sure where you are in the UK but you might be best visiting a couple of reputable dealers and asking them what they have/would recommend. 10mm stitch length on an older cylinder arm design will be relatively unusual without going to something larger like a Juki 441 or Adler 205, which will entail the accociated reduced availability of parts/needles/fittings over the more common ones for upholstery-weight machines, as well as the difficulties you might encounter keeping them happy with lighter threads. You will likely also have a reduced top speed over an upholstery weight machine, which may not be a problem now but could be a bit of a bottleneck in the near future.

If you'll settle for a new Chinese machine there is at least one Thor dealer in the UK but I can't recall them off the top of my head.

[Bert51]

Tony, you might need to talk to other people about the Adler 205 and Juki 441, they might not be the Brutes they have be made out to be.

I have an Adler 105 which is the forerunner of the Adler 205 and when I first got it I did all my leather and canvas work with it.

Yes you can sew heavy thread with the tension cranked up as far as you can go or you can thread it with 60M (T50) and repair a granddaughters school bag, like I did the other day and when I was finished she could not tell me where I had fixed it.

I think you will find these are very versatile machines.

Bert.

[TonyGreen3455]

Matt, thanks for a great idea regarding Thor dealers - I'll definitely mail them

Bert, Adler 105 as well as Pfaff 335, etc. - great machines, but.. they all with 6mm stitch length... it is at the end of my list.

Pfaff 335, Juki 1341, Adler 105 - I know they all with 6mm stitches, but some of their clones (like THOR GC1341) coming with some modification/improvements. So, on the current stage, I'm looking for such clones with stitches longer than 6mm, preferably in the UK or EU.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by TonyGreen3455

[dikman]

Tony, you might be struggling to get that long a stitch length in a machine. I had an old Singer once that could do long stitches but it was intended to sew basting stitches.

[Bert51]

Tony, from memory the Adler 205 is the same as my 105 and it has an 8mm stitch in both directions.

If you want anything longer you need to settle for a Singer 132K6, my does well over 10mm, but I have only sewn at 10mm, (through ply wood).

Bert.

[TonyGreen3455]

Just now has spoken to my local dealer - for my requirements he suggested Global 9205. Heavyweight machine, will it work with thin leather?

  

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

Just now has spoken to my local dealer - for my requirements he suggested Global 9205. Heavyweight machine, will it work with thin leather?

 

Chinese copy of the venerable (and now discontinued) Adler 205 so a lot of the advice for that machine would probably apply. However having never played with a Global machine I can't say anything about the quality. For me a 750SPM top speed would be a problem.

[Bert51]

I would go and see your local dealer and this time while you are talking have a piece of leather or two, like you will be sewing and try it out.

That way you will see what it will do.

Bert.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Bert51 said:

I would go and see your local dealer and this time while you are talking have a piece of leather or two, like you will be sewing and try it out.

I agree. Since this is going to be a expensive investment go visit dealers with your stuff in hand and sew with the size / type thread you want to use. No one machine is going to do both ends of the sewing / thickness spectrum.

I think the machine that was recommended is going to tear the hell out of the thin stuff since your requirement is only for appearance and not structure. There are videos of the difference between the Juki 8700 vs Juki 1181 vs Juki 1541 vs Juki 1508 using the same material and how the 1541 and 1508 destroy the same thin material. The object is to use the right machine with the right needle system for the job otherwise it is like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a finishing nail.

Also getting the stitch length perfect every time maybe a chore for awhile since it has the reverse and stitch length on the same lever.

Remember buy once, cry once.

 

[TonyGreen3455]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

I agree. Since this is going to be a expensive investment go visit dealers with your stuff in hand and sew with the size / type thread you want to use. No one machine is going to do both ends of the sewing / thickness spectrum.

I think the machine that was recommended is going to tear the hell out of the thin stuff since your requirement is only for appearance and not structure. There are videos of the difference between the Juki 8700 vs Juki 1181 vs Juki 1541 vs Juki 1508 using the same material and how the 1541 and 1508 destroy the same thin material. The object is to use the right machine with the right needle system for the job otherwise it is like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a finishing nail.

Also getting the stitch length perfect every time maybe a chore for awhile since it has the reverse and stitch length on the same lever.

Remember buy once, cry once.

 

I remember it is why I'm here and coming to pro guys with newbie questions, just to prevent long crying )

Juki and their clones AFAIK have a jog dial for length regs and reverse pedal.
Regarding one machine for everything  - you right, different tools for different jobs, but... nowadays who knows what will customer look for tomorrow? Especially if I'm choosing my first machine for leather. 

Anyway, I booked a visit to my local dealer already, just trying to narrow and finally find the name of my dream )

Can anyone help me to recognize this model of Juki? 

Edited February 3, 2020 by TonyGreen3455
adding picture

[JJN]

It looks like a Juki LS-341. Odd that the factory label that has the model and serial numbers is missing. It looks the stitch length dial goes to 9+ mm.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, JJN said:

It looks like a Juki LS-341

I agree but doesn't Juki 341:

1. usually have the nameplate rivet to the machine which means two holes should be present where the weird square intention is.

2. doesn't look like the normal Juki latch connecting the base to the sewing machine

3. the metal seems to be cut back further towards the main body on the bottom of the cylinder.

I would investigate further as if I remember someone in France had a problem with a Pfaff branded machine that wasn't.

kgg