Building my first mule saddle

[Ken Nelson]

This is a little late, but I NEVER use ring shanks in the construction of a saddle.  I have repaired saddles that have been built by some of the recognized top saddle makers of the last 50 years, Bob Marrs, Billy Don Hogg, Howard Counsel, Boyce Bader, Harry Adams and the list goes on.   The only well known saddles (2) that I ever tore down that had ring shanks in them and a lot of them were a couple of Ralph Shimon's.   I know some really good saddle makers that will not work on a Shimon for that reason and I will not either.    If you will never work on a saddle you build, I guess it would not matter but if you build enough of them and they are rode and used a lot, they will need repair sooner or later.  Making them repair friendly, I think is important but is probably not to a lot of people.

On ground seats, when I started, I had the Stohlman series and Harry Adams, Saddlemaker's Shop Manual.  I knew Harry pretty well, rode several of his saddles.  He had a reputation for putting a seat in a saddle "second to no one".  This by them big outfit cowboys that lived in their saddles.  I think his book is a good place to start and build on. Stohlman teaches to build an all leather ground seat and he did put a good seat in a saddle.  I have seen a couple of his saddles and know  a few people that have rode some of his saddles. If you build enough different types of saddles, you will learn to put different types of seats in saddles for different types of  disciplines.  Cutters,  ropers, barrel racers all want different types of saddles.  

One thing about those cowboy saddles,  they are supposed to be comfortable for 18 to 24 hours at at time.  Like an old man that had been the wagon boss on the XL in Nevada told me one time,  "I have had saddles I could stay in for 24 hours at a time and sleep in them and had some that would eat the hip pockets off your jeans in 8 or 9 hours or less"

Edited May 19, 2021 by Ken Nelson

[DirtyDusty]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:22 PM, EdOdgers said:

You can make the skirts as short as you like, in fact you don't need to have skirts (think McClellan saddles).  On the other hand, do you want to have a good looking saddle?  Some folks mistakenly believe that skirt length will necessarily affect the horse/mule and needs to be short for animals with shorter backs.  Sadly, they probably believe that because of bad experiences with improperly built saddles.  A saddle with properly blocked-in skirts that are angled up and away behind the cantle, won't interfere with the horse or mule's back.  Thus the saying: "ride the tree not the skirts."  I've attached photos to illustrate how the angle of the topline of the skirts behind the cantle and the blocking  of the skirts (bedding of the tree into the skirts) can be done to provide clearance and prevent the skirts from putting pressure on the back. 

So, assuming you design and install them properly,  skirt length is primarily an aesthetic consideration for which you are the judge.  I usually make my skirts from 5" to 6" behind the cantle back.  I feel that within that range I can create a balanced, pleasing look.  I only use the shorter 5" length for skirts that are narrower (vertical measure) and/or have "mother hubbard" housing (no jockeys).  I know some makers who make beautiful saddles that commonly use 6 1/2".  The saddle in the photo is 5 3/4" and is very typical for my saddles with that skirt shape and depth.  On an occasion or two I've been talked into going a bit less than 5" and regretted it, later realizing the saddle looks chopped off, imbalanced and ugly.  On the other end of the saddle, I extend the front of the skirts 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" in front of the bar tips.  Thus my total skirt length for a 16" seat is going to end up at 27 1/2" or maybe close to 28".  Seat lengths that are shorter or longer will have proportional skirt lengths.

If riders are concerned about saddle length interfering with the animals hip, and they should be, it's the bar length they need to be concerned about. To avoid long bars they need to avoid long seat lengths.  As you pointed out, the bar length for a 16" seat is going to be about 24" and for a lot of shorter backed animals that's about all they can handle well.  I always warn anyone desiring a longer seat they have the responsibility to ride bigger, longer backed critters.   A 17" seat saddle and a 250# rider is not a good fit for a 14-3 horse weighing jsut 1,000#.  You can't put five quarts in a gallon jug.

How deep are the skirts on that saddle?  How far down does the rigging plate come?  Has a nice balanced look. 

[EdOdgers]

Referring to your May 18 post, the reason you are down to the grain on the top piece of leather and still have too much rise is because the first layer wasn't carved down enough.  There are two ways to go about creating groundseats, one is to lay on the layers of leather and then start carving.  IMO, a better way is to fit and carve down each and every layer, starting with the risers and tin, with the goal that each layer will be as close to final as possible.  This way you will not only have a proper shape but it will also be closer to the tree and horse.

Below are photos (not in sequence) illustrating how I depend on a vision of the final seat shape to define each step.  By the time the strainer is in, I'm almost there and in most cases I only need to apply one layer of leather over the strainer.  Note that I'm using my templates early in the process, not just during final carving.  Not shown are the other templates that are perpendicular to the one shown.  Also note in the first of the sequence (last photo), the risers that will support the strainer have been carved down to the tree at the low spot or "pocket" of the seat.  With this mindset and process I feel I keep my groundseat as close to the horse as the tree allows.

Answer to the question about the drop of the rig plate:  Most of mine are 6 1/2" from bottom of front bar pad to bottom of rig plate.  (Bars vary in width, mine are quite wide at about 6")  The skirts are about 11 1/2" at the rear rig.

[DirtyDusty]

Decided to go with the Stohlman style drop dee rigging.  Anything stand out as a problem at this point?

[Goldshot Ron]

I have used this method, but I prefer a ring instead of a dee.  I believe that a ring allows for a more even pull between the front and rear rigging attachment points.  Your work is looking good so far.

[DirtyDusty]

On 6/27/2021 at 7:16 PM, Goldshot Ron said:

I have used this method, but I prefer a ring instead of a dee.  I believe that a ring allows for a more even pull between the front and rear rigging attachment points.  Your work is looking good so far.

Thanks!

I have gone back and forth on ring vs. dee vs. flat plate. Next saddle, Lord willing, will probably be a flat plate. Unless I make my daughter a barrel saddle. 

[DirtyDusty]

Another question on saddle finishes.  I was going for just an oiled finish.  I was thinking about antiquing the stamping and tooling, to highlight it.  The process I used on smaller items, has been to oil, tan kote, antique, and then another coat of tan kote. How will this work in a saddle that’s out in the weather getting rained on?  Will the tan kote stop future oilings from soaking in?  What’s your advice on finishes for saddles that will be used in damp weather?
Any advice on this will be greatly appreciated. 

[bland]

There are a lot of makers that do just what you are talking about.  There is some risk to it.  

I oil and use Skidmore's cream for the final finish.