Machine decision help

[guntechholsters]

Looking for some advice. I've actually been a member for a long time lost my sign-in information had to start a new account and then I just managed to sign back in for the first time in several months.

Here's my dilemma, I'm currently running a ferdco 440r, I've been into leather work for several years now but it's always revolved around holsters and carry belts. I recently started to get into wallets and purses and clutches, fancier stuff LOL. I'm going to be replacing my ferdco with a cowboy 3200. I figure it will do my heavy work such as holsters and carry belts but I can also swap out the thread and needle and work on my other projects mentioned above.

With the wallets and purses and clutches and even dress belts I was wondering if a 138 thread would be more appropriate then 207? When I assemble my wallets I was thinking on the insides I could go with it and even lighter thread such as a 90 then do my edges using 138.

For showing the insides with a 90 weight thread I was thinking about picking up another machine something economical as well, any recommendations on that would be greatly appreciated I was thinking something like a cheap singer walking foot?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you very much.

[Northmount]

@guntechholsters Moved your post to Leather Sewing Machines.  More likely to get help here.

Tom

 

[guntechholsters]

Thank you

[Kcstott]

Wallet work can be done with 136 and it's not to heavy looking. I would not go smaller than about a 96 though. I just finished a small hand bag that I used 138 on and the thread and stitch looks perfectly sized for the effect I was going for. It would not be out of place on a wallet. When I get around to doing some wallet and passport covers I'll be sewing them with 138 

[Wizcrafts]

I use #69 bonded nylon on wallet interiors and #92 when attaching the thin leather back to the interior. My wallets are usually well under 8 ounces thick along the sides and bottom. If I make a wallet that is at or over 8 ounces, I may use #138 thread. Almost any industrial walking foot machine can handle these thread weights. I refer to them as upholstery class machines. Visit any upholstery shop and you may find they have an old walking foot machine for sale after replacing it with a newer one. They run them hard and put them up wet!

[guntechholsters]

5 hours ago, charlie2crows said:

For what its worth the max i have used on any wallet ever is 90 and I try to use 69. Smaller/medium bags 90 double stitched.

Depends on a few things - design, material and construction expertise being but a few considerations.

I do it all on three machines that are perfect - all drop shipped from the orient as some racist on here described them.

All cost about 25% of the prices you would pay from 'dealers'

 

May I inquire as to what machines you run?

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

I use #69 bonded nylon on wallet interiors and #92 when attaching the thin leather back to the interior. My wallets are usually well under 8 ounces thick along the sides and bottom. If I make a wallet that is at or over 8 ounces, I may use #138 thread. Almost any industrial walking foot machine can handle these thread weights. I refer to them as upholstery class machines. Visit any upholstery shop and you may find they have an old walking foot machine for sale after replacing it with a newer one. They run them hard and put them up wet!

I am in Omaha Nebraska I don't know if we have any upholstery shops around here but I'm definitely going to start calling today

[guntechholsters]

I'm thinking I should use a cylinder arm because it would make stitching the wallets considerably easier, at least in my mind. Is my thinking correct?

[guntechholsters]

There is a gentleman not too far away from me sewing a Kenmore 6 Stitch machine he called it. He's asking $100 and says that he has sewn almost 3/8 inch leather with it. Does that seem like a good deal, looking at the pictures it looks nice

[JJN]

That is a domestic machine. You do not want a domestic machine. Look for an upholstery class industrial machine. Try craigslist.

[mikesc]

He's asking $100 and says that he has sewn almost 3/8 inch leather with it.

I would not buy a used car..or a used anything from him..Nor change any money , nor take any cheques..etc..
As JJN says..domestic machine..no way has that ever sewn 3/8 of an inch of leather..it would struggle over the double seam on a pair of jeans..motor is 90 or 100 watts..2 pieces of 1mm lambskin it could put the needle through, but they would slide around..

You need a triple feed industrial machine ..

and not a sailright, or any of the similar things..They are for "yachties" ( who have limited space onboard, and don't have the money to pay for pro sail or cushion repairs on the small stuff ) and who sew occasional two layers of canvas and maybe some 1mm thin leather and who don't much mind that the result looks pretty rough..After all who is going to climb up the mast , or turn over the deck cushions to look at the stitches. :)

IIWY..I'd look for second hand triple feed industrial..or Buy triple feed industrial from a dealer..or do what charlie2crows did and buy direct from China ( IME you can trust a Chinese seller** direct as much ( if not more ) than you can trust a seller of a second hand machine over in the next town , or Ebay, or the "dealers" in France* ..and you'll save a ton of money by buying direct ) ..but ..given that you might have to do some "setting up" when buying direct..

*The majority of dealers ( USA based ones at least ) on this board offer waaay more help and after-sales than French ones do..and are cheaper than French ones.
**I've ( as yet.. but will be looking to do so in 2021 ) not bought sewing machines direct from China..but have bought very many other items ( servo motors, laser engravers, textile items, the latter by the container load, multiple times.. etc and other items ) from Chinese sellers..I have yet to be disappointed.. Just make sure that if you are buying leather items that you specify "animal skin leather"..if not you may get PU ( plastic/ polyurethane ) "leather" ..Which is what many "western importers" order ( knowing full well that they are buying plastic ) and then sell on as "genuine leather"..as the Chinese say..the "westerners" knowingly order "fake" at wholesale..and then blame us when their customers complain.

Edited February 19, 2020 by mikesc

[Northmount]

@guntechholsters have you read this thread? 

It will answer many of your questions.

Tom

 

 

[dikman]

Good luck on importing a sewing machine at 25% of the dealer's price. It's one thing to buy smallish items from China but it's a whole new level when you talk about larger/heavier goods.

Guntechholsters, given that you have a heavy duty machine the logical choice would be an upholstery class machine, as Wiz mentioned. A cylinder arm would be nice, if you can find one, but a flat bed would probably be adequate. There should be plenty of old used machines around - Singer, Pfaff, Durkop-Adler, Consew, Seiko etc. - that should do what you want.

[RockyAussie]

11 hours ago, charlie2crows said:

All cost about 25% of the prices you would pay from 'dealers'

 

I have seen this statement before but nothing that comes even close to backing it up when it comes to the landed cost. Sending it back and getting any further satisfaction would also be I suspect another pie in the sky.

[dikman]

Charlie, are you saying you could order an industrial sewing machine today, from China, and have it delivered for 25% of the local dealer cost? I would love to see your figures, please, as my last effort, after contacting about 10 different companies (via Alibaba) and speaking with customs brokers would have resulted in a saving of only a few dollars (I posted the figures elsewhere), although if I bought the cheapest available I could have saved maybe a couple of hundred.

I'm sure there are quite a few on here who would like to know exactly how to go about this, and I'd love to know where I apparently went wrong.

[NCFD]

With regard to buying from China, it as with anything else if you do quality research you can do well importing pretty much anything you want. That being said where does all of the machines come from? yup you guessed right I personally don't know of a 441 class machine that isn't imported from our neighbors across the big blue pond, or most any machine for that matter. if you do your home work you can actually get them delivered to your business address (most wont delv to a residence sorry). I am posting this as just my personal experience and observations.

[dikman]

As I mentioned elsewhere, with regard to importing a 441 head unit only, I went through a long process trying to bring one in at a good price and found it couldn't be done (not as an individual). A fellow member on here, in the US, went through the same process and found likewise, it simply wasn't worth the trouble for the few dollars saved. If you were a business, buying a container load at a time, then you would doubtless get them at a better price per unit and all the other costs - shipping, customs etc - would also work out significantly less due to economies-of-scale. But for an individual it's simply not worth the effort.

Some Chinese companies I contacted were offering "warranty support" but just how effective that would be is probably open to conjecture, plus those offering support were invariably at the high end price-wise. Adjusting and timing a machine is no big deal and you would have to assume that any such machine you brought in would need that done. The problem would be if you have broken/damaged parts, so you have to be able to buy it cheap enough to offset the possibility that you may have to source such parts locally.

I have yet to see any figures that demonstrate it is viable/cost effective for an individual to bring in a sewing machine from China.

[NCFD]

dikman:

while I agree it can be somewhat daunting,  it can be done. Your mostly right, and not to be condescending to anyone if your not used to dealing with importers or buying equipment you are right. I have the ability because of my profession to be able to overcome the hurdles that beset the average person attempting it. Now having said all of that an individual can anticipating they use good sense and do the homework get some really good deals. personally I have procured several items from our folks across the big blue pond to the west  LOL. A recent example I just procured a class 441 machine with a upgraded motor, accessories stand delivered to my business for $1525.00. to your point it is not for everyone and to my point with good research and time you too can do it LOL

[dikman]

Unfortunately, I don't have the contacts to smuggle one in. (Not saying that's what you did, of course).

[advansite]

also looking at cb3200

 

for $1900 is that the best for the money. 

 

but the original post is how easy is it to change to tighter stitch / smaller thread to do wallets and then back to max for sheaths