Custom round knife specs

[dikman]

1 hour ago, Clintonville Leather said:

  I dont have any high temp thermometers.

Neither do I, it's all about experience and learning to judge when it's right. Unfortunately I mis-judged my last one just a tad but as in your case it still works.

[Clintonville Leather]

3 hours ago, dikman said:

Neither do I, it's all about experience and learning to judge when it's right. Unfortunately I mis-judged my last one just a tad but as in your case it still works.

I figure it is fine.  I did a low temp temper around 350F it is solely for slicing leather so I am not worried about it chipping or anything.

[Chef niloc]

I see this is a somewhat old post but just in case your still looking and or if someone finds this thread in a search looking for similar information:

I’ve had a lot of custom knives made from many different makers over the years, it’s kind of “my thing lol’. Hers what I would do:

‘tell him you want a convex grind right to the edge, that’s the most important part. Convex edge will cut better and more importantly hold up longer. A bit more tricky to sharpen yourself but easy to maintain on a leather strop and to resharpen just serch “mouse pad knife sharpening” Which is basically using as you guessed it a mouse pad and wet dry sandpaper, I’d recommend this way of sharpening a round knife to anyone and everyone, there may even be a post or two on this sight about it, dont remember ?

Tell him to  make it as thin as possible, trust me it won’t be able to make it “ too thin“, most (all in my experience)  knife makers tend  go to thick, telling them to go as thin as they can has given me the best results over the years. 

5 1/4 to 6” tip to tip is kind of a big knife IMO  but if you have one that size and like it then great, I personally prefer mine about 4-4.5”; again just my preference.

2nd best bit of advice (next to the convex grind) is give the maker a knife that you like, you can talk with him about any changes to that design  you may want but at lest he has something to work off of. At the very least some pictures (make sure they are to scale in size)

I don’t want to discourage you  (or anyone reading this ) but I thought I’d mention that in my experiences a maker who has never made (or even used) a leather round knife has very little luck making a good one there 1st time out. The good/great ones I’ve had made were from makers who already had experience with them, and most were master Blade smiths with years and years of experience under there belts. They are kind of tricky to grind as they are different from most other types of knives a maker would be use to making.

best of luck 

 

oh you/ he didn’t mention what type of steel (or I missed that) 52100 is without a doubt the best steel for the job. It is carbon so it could rust and the tannins in the leather will make maintaining the edge (leather strop) more frequently  necessary, but 52100 is the best cutter, go about 68-72 Rc. If a stainless steel blade is a must,  and or a blade that won’t require as much maintenance I’d go with AEB-L it’s the steel used to make razor blades, very very close to 52100 in cutting performance, may even be a better choice if you’re doing a lot of cutting at one time/ production work. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Chef niloc

[Clintonville Leather]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:48 PM, Chef niloc said:

I see this is a somewhat old post but just in case your still looking and or if someone finds this thread in a search looking for similar information:

I’ve had a lot of custom knives made from many different makers over the years, it’s kind of “my thing lol’. Hers what I would do:

‘tell him you want a convex grind right to the edge, that’s the most important part. Convex edge will cut better and more importantly hold up longer. A bit more tricky to sharpen yourself but easy to maintain on a leather strop and to resharpen just serch “mouse pad knife sharpening” Which is basically using as you guessed it a mouse pad and wet dry sandpaper, I’d recommend this way of sharpening a round knife to anyone and everyone, there may even be a post or two on this sight about it, dont remember ?

Tell him to  make it as thin as possible, trust me it won’t be able to make it “ too thin“, most (all in my experience)  knife makers tend  go to thick, telling them to go as thin as they can has given me the best results over the years. 

5 1/4 to 6” tip to tip is kind of a big knife IMO  but if you have one that size and like it then great, I personally prefer mine about 4-4.5”; again just my preference.

2nd best bit of advice (next to the convex grind) is give the maker a knife that you like, you can talk with him about any changes to that design  you may want but at lest he has something to work off of. At the very least some pictures (make sure they are to scale in size)

I don’t want to discourage you  (or anyone reading this ) but I thought I’d mention that in my experiences a maker who has never made (or even used) a leather round knife has very little luck making a good one there 1st time out. The good/great ones I’ve had made were from makers who already had experience with them, and most were master Blade smiths with years and years of experience under there belts. They are kind of tricky to grind as they are different from most other types of knives a maker would be use to making.

best of luck 

 

oh you/ he didn’t mention what type of steel (or I missed that) 52100 is without a doubt the best steel for the job. It is carbon so it could rust and the tannins in the leather will make maintaining the edge (leather strop) more frequently  necessary, but 52100 is the best cutter, go about 68-72 Rc. If a stainless steel blade is a must,  and or a blade that won’t require as much maintenance I’d go with AEB-L it’s the steel used to make razor blades, very very close to 52100 in cutting performance, may even be a better choice if you’re doing a lot of cutting at one time/ production work. 

A lot of good info here.  The pairing knife I made was 1/8" and I can tell thinner would be better.  I am not sure how many stock incrememts are smaller guess I will try 1/16 for a trim knife.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Clintonville Leather said:

A lot of good info here.  The pairing knife I made was 1/8" and I can tell thinner would be better.  I am not sure how many stock incrememts are smaller guess I will try 1/16 for a trim knife.

If you make a knife with 1/16 th steel and try to have it hardened to 68 /72 rc it could very well break when you drop it the first time or it could break while in use and that could be really bad for you. a thin super hard blade is a recipe for disaster, blades like that are made to shave hair with little pressure or force applied to the metal, cutting leather is a lot different process. Most premium blades don't go over 66 rc.  However from what I've read in my books if you do use 52100 it maxs out at 66rc with the optimum in toughness/hardness ratio at 57 rc  which is very good and wont need diamond stones to sharpen it. Austenitize at 1475 temper at 300 -400   A convex grind or what some call an axe grind is the toughest grind design you can have as far as breakability, that's why they use it on axes but it doesn't work as well as a straight grind for knives intended for cutting IMO AS the shape creates more drag and has a higher edge angle. It may be a very good option for you however and a personal choice. I've never made one, a round knife that is, with that edge design I have made working knives with convex grinds but they were meant for more punishment, chopping, hacking and such and were also lower in hardness so they didn't chip or break. A high polish will also help on the edge whatever the design, less drag. Don't forget to show us the creation!! 

[dikman]

I'm with chuck. Anyone can make a blade very hard, but the downside is it's brittle. Wusthof-Trident kitchen knives made their knives harder and used it as a selling point, but if you dropped one on a hard surface the tip usually broke. They replaced them under warranty if this happened (they really had no choice if they wanted to maintain their reputation). A chef I knew told me that professional chef's didn't like them as they were too hard and difficult to maintain a good edge on.

A flat grind is probably the most practical to use.

[Chef niloc]

The two posts above have very valid points in regards to steel hardness, one that I touched on but probably didn’t take the average users or knife makers into consideration. I use a leather belt loaded with diamond compound to maintain my edge and find that I only need to actually sharpen the knife once a year ( this is under moderate use), to sharpen These days I am using a belt grinder That makes quick work of it, but I did and still I do Use the mouse pad method I described above when I don’t feel like breaking out the heavy machinery lol. On reflection I’d Have to agree with The two above members That a “softer steel” is easier and probably more practical. And as for the Rc Suggestion I posted, I was wrong chuck is right I should have double checked my “facts” before posting. Looking back at old correspondence the round knives I’ve had made are 58Rc not 68, And some other knives as high as 62. So it appears I was off by 10 which is actually a huge mistake. Again my apologies.

as for the grind (convex) suggestion I made ill still stand behind that. It being a “axe” grind  as chuck called it is absolutely true. That’s why the edge holds up the longest as it has “more meat” behind it. This grind is possibly why I don’t encounter any chipping problems?? As for it creating more drag this is also probably true in comparison to a flat grind. However I don’t “ slice” leather, Especially when using a round knife. My cutting technique may not be correct?? But I almost always use a “push cut” and sometimes maybe a little bit of a rocking motion at the end. The convex edge I find pushes the leather apart as I cut thus making it easier. Again just what I’ve found to be the case with the knives I’ve had made for me.

what diamanté’s says about chef knives is probably a discussion best suited for a different forum as it’s a topic I’ve found myself in the center of many times and is a whole topic onto its own. But I will say as a professional Chef ( leatherwork is just a side thing) a hard steel is one I prefer and has definitely become more part of the norm over the past 10-15 years or so with many chefs. FDICK ( a very old school “ German kitchen knife company) started making “butchers steel “ especially designed  for this reason,, it’s called  there “ Dickoron“ line Absolutely gorgeous and works fantastic IMO. However I’m in the a Minority in that I also prefer a convex grind or at the lest a convex edge on kitchen knives. this is something I have tested and done extensive reports, articles, presentations on, but again it’s off subject here.
 

as for the hardening of Thinner steel I am not a knife maker or blade Smith  But I have had some amazingly thin and extremely durable knives made for me by the makers Bill Burke, Michael Rader, and Murray Carter. again off topic I just  though I’d mention them though Incase some were looking for some posable research references, or excellent custom knife makers

Edited June 2, 2020 by Chef niloc

[Bert51]

Talking of knifes, I have a pair of knife issued to me in 1971 with the D of D Crows Foot on them, they where possibly 20 years old when I got them, new old stock and the are mild steel.

They are a pain to keep nice and shiny, but hold the best edge of any of the knives I have had since, yeah, I still have them, put away in a save place in there sheaths.

They are the original reason I started playing with leather.

Bert.

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, Chef niloc said:

The two posts above have very valid points in regards to steel hardness, one that I touched on but probably didn’t take the average users or knife makers into consideration. I use a leather belt loaded with diamond compound to maintain my edge and find that I only need to actually sharpen the knife once a year ( this is under moderate use), to sharpen These days I am using a belt grinder That makes quick work of it, but I did and still I do Use the mouse pad method I described above when I don’t feel like breaking out the heavy machinery lol. On reflection I’d Have to agree with The two above members That a “softer steel” is easier and probably more practical. And as for the Rc Suggestion I posted, I was wrong chuck is right I should have double checked my “facts” before posting. Looking back at old correspondence the round knives I’ve had made are 58Rc not 68, And some other knives as high as 62. So it appears I was off by 10 which is actually a huge mistake. Again my apologies.

as for the grind (convex) suggestion I made ill still stand behind that. It being a “axe” grind  as chuck called it is absolutely true. That’s why the edge holds up the longest as it has “more meat” behind it. This grind is possibly why I don’t encounter any chipping problems?? As for it creating more drag this is also probably true in comparison to a flat grind. However I don’t “ slice” leather, Especially when using a round knife. My cutting technique may not be correct?? But I almost always use a “push cut” and sometimes maybe a little bit of a rocking motion at the end. The convex edge I find pushes the leather apart as I cut thus making it easier. Again just what I’ve found to be the case with the knives I’ve had made for me.

what diamanté’s says about chef knives is probably a discussion best suited for a different forum as it’s a topic I’ve found myself in the center of many times and is a whole topic onto its own. But I will say as a professional Chef ( leatherwork is just a side thing) a hard steel is one I prefer and has definitely become more part of the norm over the past 10-15 years or so with many chefs. FDICK ( a very old school “ German kitchen knife company) started making “butchers steel “ especially designed  for this reason,, it’s called  there “ Dickoron“ line Absolutely gorgeous and works fantastic IMO. However I’m in the a Minority in that I also prefer a convex grind or at the lest a convex edge on kitchen knives. this is something I have tested and done extensive reports, articles, presentations on, but again it’s off subject here.
 

as for the hardening of Thinner steel I am not a knife maker or blade Smith  But I have had some amazingly thin and extremely durable knives made for me by the makers Bill Burke, Michael Rader, and Murray Carter. again off topic I just  though I’d mention them though Incase some were looking for some posable research references, or excellent custom knife makers

I would love to see a picture of your custom round knife/s for reference. I too collect knives and have made them for many years as well but am not to old to learn new tricks. As I said I have never tried a convex grind on a leather knife or a chefs knife for that matter.