Singer 29k51 thread problems

[MarenNinni]

Hi. 

Help needed in Norway. 

I have a singer 29k51, and it worked. Until I tried using some 18/3 linen thread. The thread broke, I gave up, threaded the machine with my regular thread, and now it skips stitch number one and then the thread breaks. 

I have taken it apart, cleaned and oiled it, everything seems to be working, but the thread breaks. It seems to catch the bobbin winder, that's all I can work out. See pic. Any advice? I'm at loss for solving this. 

 

Kind regards from Maren 

[MarenNinni]

The upper thread it is. Sorry for not making that clear. 

[jimi]

Hi, Sounds like maybe your needle has moved to the side?? Do you have the manual for your machine? have you checked where the needle is when the hook of the shuttle comes around??

[LumpenDoodle2]

Did you change the tension on the bobbin for the other thread?    I have a 29K15, but it’s been ages since I had to faff with it, so not much help here.

Don’t worry, someone will be along soon with better help.

cheers

[MarenNinni]

20 hours ago, jimi said:

Hi, Sounds like maybe your needle has moved to the side?? Do you have the manual for your machine? have you checked where the needle is when the hook of the shuttle comes around??

Hi! What do you mean moved to the side? It seems to be in place. Will check the manual one more time. Thanks! 

20 hours ago, LumpenDoodle2 said:

Did you change the tension on the bobbin for the other thread?    I have a 29K15, but it’s been ages since I had to faff with it, so not much help here.

Don’t worry, someone will be along soon with better help.

cheers

Ha... yes I did. Will try adjusting the tension of the upper thread. 

[chrisash]

On the needle bar, the lower screw holds the needle in tight and just above that is another screw which when released allows the needle to be moved sideways so you can look at the hook and adjust the needle either closer or away from the hook. there is a item in the manual about changing its position

Were you using the correct size needle for the thread this site may be of assistance https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

[MarenNinni]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

On the needle bar, the lower screw holds the needle in tight and just above that is another screw which when released allows the needle to be moved sideways so you can look at the hook and adjust the needle either closer or away from the hook. there is a item in the manual about changing its position

Were you using the correct size needle for the thread this site may be of assistance https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

Thank you. Have adjusted the needle bar, but no it just skips every time. I cannot see that the needle is bent or blunt, but it is an old needle soeh. It worked, and now it doesn't. *sigh* any more suggestions? Have tried adjusting the tension and checked every spring for dirt. 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, MarenNinni said:

Have adjusted the needle bar, but no it just skips every time.

First, make sure the machine is threaded correctly and that the needle is aligned correctly! The rib should be on the left and scarf on the right when you are in front of the arm. Also, make sure you are using the correct needle system! The original was System 29x3 and 29x4, which are obsolete. The modern equivalent is System 135x16 and 135x17 (common walking foot needles). If this is already set, then the timing of the hook is probably out and needs to be readjusted. Open the throat cover plate to expose the hook so you can see which way it needs to move to intersect the needle at the right moment.

When timed correctly, the hook intersects the needle above the eye, inside the scarf area, after the needle has reached bottom dead center, then moved up slightly, then halted, or just starts to move down again. If the hook passes the needle before or after these events it skips stitches.

There is a hole in the lower base, on the right side. This is a screwdriver hole. Inside there is a crank shaft coming down that meets one going through the arm, which drives the shuttle. There is an eccentric screw holding the shafts together and there is a locking nut on the back of them. It is tricky to get a box end wrench under the arm and into the lower section, but it is doable. Loosen the locknut slightly, then stick a flat blade screwdriver through the access hole. Rotate the hand wheel to bring the eccentric screw into alignment with the hole and turn it one way or the other about 1/2 turn, then check how close the hook tip comes to the needle when the needle has moved down, then up and halted. It is at this point that the hook should be approaching the center of the needle, just about the eye, in the cutout scarf.

If you are using the correct needle system, aligned properly and it is set to be close to the hook, but the hook can't be adjusted to intersect it after it makes the aforementioned jog, the shuttle driving gears may have slipped out of time. That is a big deal and I won't dive into it here. If you are not skilled with repairing industrial sewing machines, contact a dealer who can repair it for you.

[MarenNinni]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

First, make sure the machine is threaded correctly and that the needle is aligned correctly! The rib should be on the left and scarf on the right when you are in front of the arm. Also, make sure you are using the correct needle system! The original was System 29x3 and 29x4, which are obsolete. The modern equivalent is System 135x16 and 135x17 (common walking foot needles). If this is already set, then the timing of the hook is probably out and needs to be readjusted. Open the throat cover plate to expose the hook so you can see which way it needs to move to intersect the needle at the right moment.

When timed correctly, the hook intersects the needle above the eye, inside the scarf area, after the needle has reached bottom dead center, then moved up slightly, then halted, or just starts to move down again. If the hook passes the needle before or after these events it skips stitches.

There is a hole in the lower base, on the right side. This is a screwdriver hole. Inside there is a crank shaft coming down that meets one going through the arm, which drives the shuttle. There is an eccentric screw holding the shafts together and there is a locking nut on the back of them. It is tricky to get a box end wrench under the arm and into the lower section, but it is doable. Loosen the locknut slightly, then stick a flat blade screwdriver through the access hole. Rotate the hand wheel to bring the eccentric screw into alignment with the hole and turn it one way or the other about 1/2 turn, then check how close the hook tip comes to the needle when the needle has moved down, then up and halted. It is at this point that the hook should be approaching the center of the needle, just about the eye, in the cutout scarf.

If you are using the correct needle system, aligned properly and it is set to be close to the hook, but the hook can't be adjusted to intersect it after it makes the aforementioned jog, the shuttle driving gears may have slipped out of time. That is a big deal and I won't dive into it here. If you are not skilled with repairing industrial sewing machines, contact a dealer who can repair it for you.

Thank you all for your help. 

The needle was too close to the shuttle. When I dissasembled the gears, I took a photo of the alignment, and I checked again and it was out of time, my fault. Now it works sorta smooth, after some tension adjusting. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by MarenNinni

[MarenNinni]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

First, make sure the machine is threaded correctly and that the needle is aligned correctly! The rib should be on the left and scarf on the right when you are in front of the arm. Also, make sure you are using the correct needle system! The original was System 29x3 and 29x4, which are obsolete. The modern equivalent is System 135x16 and 135x17 (common walking foot needles). If this is already set, then the timing of the hook is probably out and needs to be readjusted. Open the throat cover plate to expose the hook so you can see which way it needs to move to intersect the needle at the right moment.

When timed correctly, the hook intersects the needle above the eye, inside the scarf area, after the needle has reached bottom dead center, then moved up slightly, then halted, or just starts to move down again. If the hook passes the needle before or after these events it skips stitches.

There is a hole in the lower base, on the right side. This is a screwdriver hole. Inside there is a crank shaft coming down that meets one going through the arm, which drives the shuttle. There is an eccentric screw holding the shafts together and there is a locking nut on the back of them. It is tricky to get a box end wrench under the arm and into the lower section, but it is doable. Loosen the locknut slightly, then stick a flat blade screwdriver through the access hole. Rotate the hand wheel to bring the eccentric screw into alignment with the hole and turn it one way or the other about 1/2 turn, then check how close the hook tip comes to the needle when the needle has moved down, then up and halted. It is at this point that the hook should be approaching the center of the needle, just about the eye, in the cutout scarf.

If you are using the correct needle system, aligned properly and it is set to be close to the hook, but the hook can't be adjusted to intersect it after it makes the aforementioned jog, the shuttle driving gears may have slipped out of time. That is a big deal and I won't dive into it here. If you are not skilled with repairing industrial sewing machines, contact a dealer who can repair it for you.

Thank you for this as well! I bought it second hand, full of oil, dirt and dust. Managed to restore it by manual and parts list. Skipped the gear part, coz it was sewing, until this happened. Now it's all cleaned, and after the double check also in time...

[LumpenDoodle2]

[chrisash]

29x3 & 29x4 are available online from many places at least in the UK 

[Wizcrafts]

9 hours ago, chrisash said:

29x3 & 29x4 are available online from many places at least in the UK 

As they are occasionally in the US market. However, all of those modern system 29 needles I have bought are merely repackaged System 135x16. The reason I say this is because they all have a cutout scarf above the eye and are almost the exact same length as walking foot needles, whereas the original 29x3/4 didn't have a scarf. I have a few of these original no-scarf needles left from a previous purchase and they definitely perform differently than walking foot needles. You can set these needles so close to the hook that it actually makes slight contact above the eye.

If any of you know where I can buy some actual System 29x4 without a scarf, please let me know.

[Constabulary]

21 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

If any of you know where I can buy some actual System 29x4 without a scarf, please let me know.

I may have some 29x3 but most likely no leather tips - will check...

[jimi]

sorry wiz, i only have 15 left!!!! ikes.....

[MarenNinni]

19 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

As they are occasionally in the US market. However, all of those modern system 29 needles I have bought are merely repackaged System 135x16. The reason I say this is because they all have a cutout scarf above the eye and are almost the exact same length as walking foot needles, whereas the original 29x3/4 didn't have a scarf. I have a few of these original no-scarf needles left from a previous purchase and they definitely perform differently than walking foot needles. You can set these needles so close to the hook that it actually makes slight contact above the eye.

If any of you know where I can buy some actual System 29x4 without a scarf, please let me know.

Have you checked sew-europe.co.uk? I just bought needles from them. Link here: https://www.sew-europe.co.uk/shop/needles/groz-beckert-industrial-needles/29x4-groz-beckert-needles/29x4-ntw-leather-point-needles-10-needles-per-pack/

[MarenNinni]

I have an additional question. Is it possible to rig the machine to take spools instead of bobbins? I guess not, but maybe..? And what what thread is best suited for two layers 5oz pull up..? #noob you see. 

[Bert51]

I have mine setup for spools.

I got some wire similar to a coat hanger and make it to wrap around the reel holder pin and go over the top of the Driving Lever where I sit the spool at the back of the machine.

You can see what I mean in this picture, I have the wire turn in to cover it. I have a loop in the middle, but you do really need it.

Bert.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, MarenNinni said:

I have an additional question. Is it possible to rig the machine to take spools instead of bobbins? I guess not, but maybe..? And what what thread is best suited for two layers 5oz pull up..? #noob you see. 

I removed the spool pin on the upper right and drilled it out to fit the bottom of an industrial thread stand. There is a nut and lock-washer on the bottom of the bracket holding everything in place. This works like a charm and gives me 4 spools to choose from. As I change colors of top thread I simply cut the old thread about halfway down from the thread guide above and tie in the new color. Then I lift the presser foot to release the tension disks, un-thread the needle and.pull the old and new thread all the way through the mechanism. I only need my threading rod when I accidentally pull the old thread too far up the snout.

This patcher is always loaded with #69 bonded thread, on top and in the bobbins, with a #18 titanium needle. It can accept #92 thread if needed, which calls for a #19 or #20 needle.

[Constabulary]

3 hours ago, MarenNinni said:

I have an additional question. Is it possible to rig the machine to take spools instead of bobbins?

I guess she means the bottom thread (because of bobbins) - or not?

Edited April 29, 2020 by Constabulary

[Bert51]

Sorry if I got it wrong, but it would be great if it was possible, but i don't it it is. Never see or read anything to say you can.

Bert.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Bert51

[LumpenDoodle2]

Did someone not ask about this on here a few years ago?   I have a vague memory of that, and I’m sure the answer was no.

Edited April 30, 2020 by LumpenDoodle2

[Wizcrafts]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:44 AM, MarenNinni said:

Is it possible to rig the machine to take spools instead of bobbins?

If you are asking if this machine can use external spools for the bottom thread, the answer is NO.

[jimi]

On 4/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Wizcrafts said:

This patcher is always loaded with #69 bonded thread, on top and in the bobbins, with a #18 titanium needle. It can accept #92 thread if needed, which calls for a #19 or #20 needle.

So, Is that you cheating Wiz???? Do i see a domestic machine motor mounted on the back???

[Wizcrafts]

21 hours ago, jimi said:

So, Is that you cheating Wiz???? Do i see a domestic machine motor mounted on the back???

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

The motor has been there for about 10 years. The guy I bought it from attached the motor 5 years before I bought it.

I can tell you that the motor is a 1.5 amp model and it won't start the machine by itself unless the hand wheel is disengaged by the bobbin winder friction disk. I stopped trying to use it a few years ago but left in attached for shits and giggles. Now, I either hand wheel or treadle it.

You should see the motor on my Adler 30-7 patcher! 1/2 horsepower clutch motor running through a speed reducer. I love to hear machines going ta-pocketa-pocketa