CFM chuck123wapati Posted May 31, 2021 CFM Report Posted May 31, 2021 14 hours ago, scrapyarddog said: I'm sure some masters have no problem using it, but I'd rather spend it bit more money to get something with higher HRC and toughness. If you can get one made of M390 or 20CV, you'll see a difference in edge retention. these steels can be screwed up just as easily and produce bad blades it is a matter of proper heat treatment that makes the blade. As well most folks don't have the equipment to test the hardness. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
CFM chuck123wapati Posted May 31, 2021 CFM Report Posted May 31, 2021 8 hours ago, Klara said: It's a question of taste. I find low-carbon blades much easier to maintain than stainless steel. all blades are made from high carbon steels but are tempered differently to produce the wanted hardness and temper. To hard and the steel becomes to brittle and can chip or break to soft and it wont hold an edge. I too prefer blades that are less hard so i can sharpen them with regular stones easily. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members scrapyarddog Posted May 31, 2021 Members Report Posted May 31, 2021 7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said: these steels can be screwed up just as easily and produce bad blades it is a matter of proper heat treatment that makes the blade. As well most folks don't have the equipment to test the hardness. True, but I think it’s hard to deny that some steel provide better balance between hardness and toughness, and some steel just aren’t that great at maintaining an edge. Unless we are here saying that no matter the chemistry, all steel can perform the same. Quote
Members Klara Posted June 1, 2021 Members Report Posted June 1, 2021 Are there even any round knives on the market where the exact kind of steel is known? I've been thinking whether I should ask my knife-making friend to make me one - or book a workshop to make one with his instruction - but I'd get two new Osbornes for the price, with a more certain outcome... Quote
CFM chuck123wapati Posted June 1, 2021 CFM Report Posted June 1, 2021 15 hours ago, scrapyarddog said: True, but I think it’s hard to deny that some steel provide better balance between hardness and toughness, and some steel just aren’t that great at maintaining an edge. Unless we are here saying that no matter the chemistry, all steel can perform the same. Yes that is the chemistry of steel and why they make steels for certain uses, we are talking high carbon steels for use as knives. Its the way it is produced that makes the quality of the blade more so than the type of High carbon steel that is used all that steel type talk you hear is mostly just hype to sell the product or bragging rights about an overpriced knife. Just a few degrees either way during the hardening or tempering stage can ruin or make the knife no matter the type of high carbon steel. Just my opinion I have made a lot of knives with the same steel and some were good and some had to be re hardened and re tempered because they weren't as good that's all part of a process that has been lost in mass production and why there are poor blades on the market. Of course there are producers out there that use low grade steel too. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
CFM chuck123wapati Posted June 1, 2021 CFM Report Posted June 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Klara said: Are there even any round knives on the market where the exact kind of steel is known? I've been thinking whether I should ask my knife-making friend to make me one - or book a workshop to make one with his instruction - but I'd get two new Osbornes for the price, with a more certain outcome... Yes probably but usually if the steel is talked about the steel type becomes a selling point and reason to charge more not necessarily because it does a better job than another type at cutting leather. Your knife making friend can explain it better in person I'm sure. The reason people often prefer vintage tools is that the production processes were much stricter which overall produced blades that were more uniform from one to the other not that the steel was some new blend of metals. if that makes sense. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members Klara Posted June 1, 2021 Members Report Posted June 1, 2021 In one way it makes sense. In another not, because I figured that practically all industrial processes are now computer-controlled which should have made them a lot more repeatable... I wonder whether the difference is not that once upon a time there were people in quality control who took pride in their work and their company's name. People whose jobs have been cut in the last decades... And especially in leather tools the market nowadays consists of a huge amount of newcomers who don't know the difference and will buy anything. Preferably for the least amount of money possible... Quote
CFM chuck123wapati Posted June 1, 2021 CFM Report Posted June 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, Klara said: "I wonder whether the difference is not that once upon a time there were people in quality control who took pride in their work and their company's name. " exactly! and why some folks say my new Cs Osborne is awesome others say it doesn't hold an edge. Knives are what led the steel industry in the beginning and the science behind good knife steel is hundreds if not thousands of years old. Other things though also come in to a good blade for leather The edge angle and grind are equally important to the sharpness of the blade. some of the newer blades i have seen use a sabre or even a convex grind whereas the older blades and better blades use a full flat grind this makes for a thinner blade at the leather and less drag during the cutting process but it also costs more to make which is another problem of modern manufacturing the bottom line now is all about profit. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members scrapyarddog Posted June 1, 2021 Members Report Posted June 1, 2021 9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said: Yes that is the chemistry of steel and why they make steels for certain uses, we are talking high carbon steels for use as knives. Its the way it is produced that makes the quality of the blade more so than the type of High carbon steel that is used all that steel type talk you hear is mostly just hype to sell the product or bragging rights about an overpriced knife. Just a few degrees either way during the hardening or tempering stage can ruin or make the knife no matter the type of high carbon steel. Just my opinion I have made a lot of knives with the same steel and some were good and some had to be re hardened and re tempered because they weren't as good that's all part of a process that has been lost in mass production and why there are poor blades on the market. Of course there are producers out there that use low grade steel too. As I don’t make blades or know how to heat treat, I can’t comment on that. All I can say is I do see differences in Tandy’s head knife, high carbon paring knife from Talas, CPM 154, S30V, D2, 20CV (LW), M390, certain “HSS”, and blue paper steel used by Okada. And if someone wants to get a reasonably good knife without knife making skills, there are good options out there. For sure, the treatment done by individual makers and blade geometry adopted make a difference, but if I had to choose, 20CV and M390. For crazy sharpness (but also a tad brittle), blue paper steel. Quote
Members Klara Posted June 2, 2021 Members Report Posted June 2, 2021 Can you tell us who makes leather tools out of 20CV or M390? Thanks! Quote
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