Using a stitching awl

[bluepenguin]

Hey everyone! I'm fairly new to leatherwork, and I'm getting to be proficient with tooling, dyeing, etc, but when it comes to actually constructing anything, I'm lost. So I picked up a bunch of Al Stohlman's books, and I've been doing a lot of reading and practicing. My problem, though, is this. When I'm using a stitching awl, after I've gouged a sewing channel and all that, it takes a major effort to get the awl blade to go through the leather. As in, I can't make it happen. Obviously I must be missing something, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Johanna]

What weight leathers are you sewing, and how well do you sharpen your awl? Do you have a stitching pony or something you use to free up your hands? What kind of awl do you prefer, and are you able to pierce the leather on at least one side in one smooth move? Hey, I don't have any answers, but there are lots of folks here who do. Give them something to work with!

Welcome to leatherworker.net, there are some great people here, and we hope you enjoy yourself.

Johanna

[abn]

B.P.,

I don't know about the other folks here, but I've never been able to put my project in a stitching pony and just "go to town" with two needles and an awl balanced in my hands (like the books say). My leather is usually too thick or too hard (post-dyeing) to do it.

What I do is this:

I set the project flat on my workbench. I use an overstitcher to mark an evenly-spaced set of holes. Then I strike the awl with a mallet to create my stitching holes. (Don't do this on your kitchen table without some sort of cutting pad underneath! :biggrin: ) After making the holes, then I gouge the stitching channel. Probably not the fastest way to do it, but it works for me.

BTW, I was always embarrassed to admit I did things this way until an older (and very respected) leatherworker with arthritis in his hands told me he had to do it the same way...

Hope this helps (and welcome to the forum!), -Alex

[bruce johnson]

Blue Penguin,

I suspect the issue is how you are securing the leather, the probable hardness of your leather, and the awl blade itself.

I can't really handsew very well in anything other than a stitching horse. By keeping the stitch line close to the jaws of the horse everything stays in place, the lines come out even, and I am happy.

Hard leather especially if dry leather to start with, then dyed, which further hardens it if not oiled, is a little tougher to do. Notice I said little, because I think the next factor is the biggie. Not impossible just harder.

You have to have a sharp awl blade. No getting around it. There is only one maker of awl blades I have found that have anything close to useable out of the box. Most need more than just a stropping new. The Tandy, Osbornes, and most others require some shaping, then finer stones, then fine wet/dry sand paper, and then stropping. Awl blades absolutely have to be sharp and smooth. I don't know it TLF still sells the awl with the blade stuck into the end, I used them for a while, but don't care for them. I much prefer the style of awl that has a chuck in the handle and replaceable blades. I have a couple of the red handles Tandy ones. I cut the knob off the butt end and flatten it a bit. The I can push with my palm - much less effort. Same with some styles of the Osbornes. If the blades (and some smaller sizes do) tend to be a bit loose, break off a toothpick and stick it in the chuck too.

I have awls from TLF, Osborne, and Bob Douglas. The blades from Bob Douglas are weapons, they are great and ready to use out of the box. I bought the shortest awl handle he makes, and still cut it off. I like them palmable. If you get one from him, remember how sharp the blade is to start, and sharpen all your oither blades to that degree. Once sharp, if you drop one and the blade tip hits the floor - you will be upset. It takes time to get them right.

Unless you have a physical reason not to, the Stohlman instructions are right on for handsewing. Keep everything in your hands. Setting down an awl and watching it knocked on the floor by the 4 foot thread you are pulling through will wreck your day. It isn't a race, but doing a good job doesn't have to take all day either.

Bruce Johnson

[Tom Katzke]

Yep, it can be done just like the book says. You can even sew rawhide when it is cased correctly. I use the Osborne awls and work them over. I have one of those cheep head mounted magnifiers that Hidecrafters sells and use it to get a good look at any blade I am sharpening. The blade should be smooth as glass with no marks, all this while still keeping the diamond shape. By the time I am done I guess I could afford one of the Douglas blades. I am sure that you can get them at Sheridan Leather Outfitters 1-888-803-3030.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

Blue Penguin,

I suspect the issue is how you are securing the leather, the probable hardness of your leather, and the awl blade itself.

I can't really handsew very well in anything other than a stitching horse. By keeping the stitch line close to the jaws of the horse everything stays in place, the lines come out even, and I am happy.

Hard leather especially if dry leather to start with, then dyed, which further hardens it if not oiled, is a little tougher to do. Notice I said little, because I think the next factor is the biggie. Not impossible just harder.

You have to have a sharp awl blade. No getting around it. There is only one maker of awl blades I have found that have anything close to useable out of the box. Most need more than just a stropping new. The Tandy, Osbornes, and most others require some shaping, then finer stones, then fine wet/dry sand paper, and then stropping. Awl blades absolutely have to be sharp and smooth. I don't know it TLF still sells the awl with the blade stuck into the end, I used them for a while, but don't care for them. I much prefer the style of awl that has a chuck in the handle and replaceable blades. I have a couple of the red handles Tandy ones. I cut the knob off the butt end and flatten it a bit. The I can push with my palm - much less effort. Same with some styles of the Osbornes. If the blades (and some smaller sizes do) tend to be a bit loose, break off a toothpick and stick it in the chuck too.

I have awls from TLF, Osborne, and Bob Douglas. The blades from Bob Douglas are weapons, they are great and ready to use out of the box. I bought the shortest awl handle he makes, and still cut it off. I like them palmable. If you get one from him, remember how sharp the blade is to start, and sharpen all your oither blades to that degree. Once sharp, if you drop one and the blade tip hits the floor - you will be upset. It takes time to get them right.

Unless you have a physical reason not to, the Stohlman instructions are right on for handsewing. Keep everything in your hands. Setting down an awl and watching it knocked on the floor by the 4 foot thread you are pulling through will wreck your day. It isn't a race, but doing a good job doesn't have to take all day either.

Bruce Johnson

[ClayB]

I agree 100% with Bruce on the awl blades by Bob Douglas. I broke the Tandy awl blade that I was trying to sew a cantle binding on a saddle with. Since our local leather store had closed down, I went to a local saddle shop hoping I might be able to buy an awl blade from him. He told me to get one from Bob and that was all he would use. I couldn't believe the differnce they made over the Tandy awls that I hade been using. Bob's blade slide right through all the layers of leather on the cantle binding with very little effort. I know it's sometimes hard to justify the cost of really good tools, but once you use some of them, you realize they are worth it.

I don't hand sew like Al Stohlman teaches in his books. I still set the awl down a lot. I know that sometime I should just practice until I get it figured out, but I don't sew all that much and haven't taken the time to learn to do it properly.

Clay

[bluepenguin]

Thanks y'all! I will definitely look into the Bob Douglas tools. The sharpness factor probably has a lot to do with my issue, actually; I sharpened the blades I was using and thought, oh good, they're sharp now, but I examined them more closely after I read your posts and realized they could use a lot more elbow grease. Thank you so much for the pointers!

[CitizenKate]

I've never quite understood what the point was of only marking the holes with an overstitch wheel or thonging chisel, then having to actually make the hole when you're juggling two hand-held needles and thread. Every time I've tried to use an awl in that fashion, I've ended up stretching the edge of the leather and the holes were never uniform in angle or spacing, even when I was careful to really nail my hole marks with the awl.

I can tell you my awl is quite sharp. While in the process of purchasing it, it went about 2/3rds of the way through my flexor carpi radialis (inside forarm muscle) with no effort at all while was juggling some packages in my arms. I spent some time sharpening it even more since then.

It just seems to work much better if I pre-punch the holes before I even begin stitching. I can get a nice, fluid rythm going with the needles, so the actual stitching gets done in less time, and the stitches come out nice and even.

But, hey, I'm new at all this sewing and lacing stuff. If someone knows why it's better to do it that way, I'm always changing how I do things in order to improve.

[Billsotx]

Hey Kat,

Ouch!

It's not like tatooing , not your arm, the leather and it takes 2 needles - say, "Two!" ... lol

[CitizenKate]

Yep, I've got two o' them, too. (Needles, that is.) LOL

Hey Kat,

Ouch!

It's not like tatooing , not your arm, the leather and it takes 2 needles - say, "Two!" ... lol

[ClayB]

It just seems to work much better if I pre-punch the holes before I even begin stitching. I can get a nice, fluid rythm going with the needles, so the actual stitching gets done in less time, and the stitches come out nice and even.

But, hey, I'm new at all this sewing and lacing stuff. If someone knows why it's better to do it that way, I'm always changing how I do things in order to improve.

Hi Kate,

I don't sew alot, but when I do, I do the same thing. I will punch the holes before I start sewing. I have tried doing it the right way many times, but either I am just not coordinated enough or I just need more practice. On small items, I use an awl. On larger items. I sometime use my Boss sewing machine without any thread in it. It would be nice to just sew with the Boss, but I haven't figured out how to get it set right to sew and I get frustrated so for now it is an expensive hole punch. Makes nice even holes )

Someday maybe I will learn to do it the right way.

Clay

[cjbleather]

abn, I am like Clay. I don't do enough to follow Stohlman's technique. I do try now and then just for fun. However, I mostly punching in advance my slits with a very sharp awl in advance. The plus for doing these in advance, is that you don't have to put down your awl with every stitch and take the chance of knocking it off the desk or table. I do use a square of balsa on the other side of the piece when I punch my slits. This prevents the leather piece from bending and keeps the slits on the back side nice and straight. Plus they stay in the channel if you use one. Carl

[CitizenKate]

I do use a square of balsa on the other side of the piece when I punch my slits. This prevents the leather piece from bending and keeps the slits on the back side nice and straight. Plus they stay in the channel if you use one. Carl

Yeah, exactly. When I was trying to punch the holes with an awl as I stitched, the leather was getting all bent and pulled out of shape around the edges, the holes were unevenly spaced (even though they were pre-marked with a multi-pronged thonging chisel) and I could never get the awl to go in at exactly the same angle every time, so it was a mess when it was over. And yes, I do make sure the seam I am stitching is positioned just barely above the top edge of the jaws of the stitching pony.

I usually have some scrap foam core sitting around which, if you lay the leather on it while you're punching the holes, supports the leather, keeping it flat as you punch, while allowing the awl to easily continue on through the leather. Doing it this way also makes it easier to keep the holes evenly spaced and turned at the same angle.

Another thing I wonder is, why not just drive the thonging chisel all the way through the leather and "joost be dun widit"?

Edited October 20, 2006 by CitizenKate

[CitizenKate]

I decided to revive this thread, after doing some experimenting, I discovered the answer to my own question. The reason(s) you don't want to drive the thonging chisel all the way through the leather is that

1) the thonging chisel creates a bit too large of a hole, causing the thread to be somewhat loose in the hole. It seems better to have a tight fit through the hole for the thread, especially where you backstitch, to reduce the chance of having it come out at the ends, or in the middle should the thread become worn through.

2) the stitching awl (if it's kept sharp) slices through the leather, but the thonging chisel, if you drive it all the way through, puts little tears in the leather, which weakens it. In the short term, you won't notice much difference, but in the long term, I think the sewn seam would tear loose more easily.

So I will probably still want to pre-punch the holes, but on my future projects, I'll use the sewing awl with a piece of foam core, rather than the thonging chisel.

Kate

I usually have some scrap foam core sitting around which, if you lay the leather on it while you're punching the holes, supports the leather, keeping it flat as you punch, while allowing the awl to easily continue on through the leather. Doing it this way also makes it easier to keep the holes evenly spaced and turned at the same angle.

Another thing I wonder is, why not just drive the thonging chisel all the way through the leather and "joost be dun widit"?

[Billsotx]

I would not use a thonging chisel for sewing with thread, as the holes are too large as you point out; they are more suited for lacing. A small piece of neopreme a.k.a. Pound-o-board (or gum rubber like Line-o-Tex) glued to a piece of soft pine makes a good support backing and protects your fingers. "The Art of Hand Sewing" is the bible when it comes to hand stitching, however, I do not gouge sewing channels if I'm sewing grain side out because that removes the strongest of the fiber. Instead of cutting a groove I press a groove into the grain side with a modified dental pick. The groove only needs to be deep enough to let the thread lie below the surface of the leather. If I'm making a long straight groove I use the TLF nylon bone folder to press in that groove, but the modified dental pick makes for easy cornering. A creaser will also work if you happen to have one.

Remember to punch your awl holes diagonal to your stitch line as Stolhman illustrates. That really sets off your work. Large thong holes or round holes are unsightly and shout "KIT!" ... nothing wrong with kits, but I don't want what I cut and built mistaken for a kit.

Edited January 19, 2007 by Billsotx

[Regis]

It sounds like none of you use punches to make holes for sewing. I saw that the fancy hand punch with rotary sizes (that I bought) made all too big holes. Therefore, I bought a single hand "squeze" punch that is size zero (I believe). I am a bit concerned about how to keep it sharp though. Part of the problem with learning online is not knowing what actually looks right. I thought that if there was no holes visable, then it was done by sewing machine. I thought awls were for places you could not reach with punch.

This will make my next project look somewhat better (now that I'm beginning to learn what "better" is). I do not want kit look. Good or bad, it is my own from design to final use (even if some are hid in closet).

Regis

[CitizenKate]

I would not use a thonging chisel for sewing with thread, as the holes are too large as you point out; they are more suited for lacing.

I will still use a diamond hole thonging chisel to mark where the holes will go for saddle stiching. The holes are exactly the same distance apart as with an overstitch wheel, but I like the chisel better because it's a lot easier to control. I also like the way it marks a perfect angle for the awl to go through.

"The Art of Hand Sewing" is the bible when it comes to hand stitching, however, I do not gouge sewing channels if I'm sewing grain side out because that removes the strongest of the fiber. Instead of cutting a groove I press a groove into the grain side with a modified dental pick. The groove only needs to be deep enough to let the thread lie below the surface of the leather. If I'm making a long straight groove I use the TLF nylon bone folder to press in that groove, but the modified dental pick makes for easy cornering. A creaser will also work if you happen to have one.

Same here, I noticed that the leather was noticably weaker where I cut a stitching groove - I could almost tear it with my bare hands. So I also decided it was better to just make a pressed groove, rather than a cut groove.

It's an excellent book on stitching, alright... but a few of us have been debating the value of learning to punch the stitching holes while you're also holding two needles. Maybe it's faster, but for me it was actually faster in the long run to punch the holes before even picking up the needles, because of how much faster and smoother the stitching process was.

Remember to punch your awl holes diagonal to your stitch line as Stolhman illustrates. That really sets off your work. Large thong holes or round holes are unsightly and shout "KIT!" ... nothing wrong with kits, but I don't want what I cut and built mistaken for a kit.

I hear that! (See the thread on the biker wallet... that was quite a journey for me.)

Edited January 20, 2007 by CitizenKate

[ClayB]

I bought those chisels for punching stitching holes a few years ago. Why? Because they make them, so I must need them, Right? Well, I have never used them yet. But I like the idea of marking the slant of holes with them. I always have trouble keeping the slant the same. Probably goes back to just not doing enough hand stitching to get good at it. I also bought one of those punches that holds four small round tubes in a row. Probably was made so that you could get the same sort of holes that come in the leather pieces in kits. Not sure why you would want them, but if you did, this might be the tool (if it worked good) I did try using that and got the same results as Kate mentioned. Tears the leather between the holes.

I think this is an interesting thread for those of us that aren't great hand sewers yet. Someday we all should get together and take a class from Verlane.

Clay

[Johanna]

Thonging chisels have their uses- like doing the holes for a buckstitched belt. Punching out laced saddlebags. Mexican braiding and appliqué work done with lace. In fact, I was thinking about this, and I mostly use chisels where lace is involved, not for sewing with thread.

For lacing or hand sewing with thread, where two pieces must be joined together, I fasten everything tightly (twist ties, glue, tacks, whatever) and punch the holes with a tiny sharp awl. I always make both holes at the same time- I do not try to match two pieces of leather with holes punched separately, ever. I try to make the holes an bit smaller than the lace or thread. Then I pick up two needles and sew it. I keep my needles, both Life-Eyes and glovers needles, sharp by stropping them, and never use harness needles-too big and blunt. I never let go of the needle(s), same as lacing. That's the way I was taught, right or wrong, it's what I know how to do. I admire people who can sew 12 stitches an inch with an awl in the palm of their hand, but I'm not one of them. (Gesa thinks that's child's play!) I backstitch to finish off, and I pound both thread and lace with the back of my mallet when I'm done. I was told that "set" the stitches. Sometimes it seems like it does, sometimes I feel like I'm observing an old man's superstition. For hand sewing thread with thick (above 8/9 oz.) I don't use an awl. I do use a single or double punch, smaller than a chisel. I don't think Tandy sells them, I think my set is wood carving tools, but I could be wrong.

For you old timers out there, disregard: Tandy sells a "thonging chisel" and that is a one- two-four-eight toothed heavy handled tool you whack with your mallet. Some people know them as "gang punches". Same thing. You have to sharpen and strop these things or you will hurt your elbow. They aren't sold sharp, and without an edge, you work too hard to drive them through 8/9 oz. leather. A few minutes on a stone and occasional stropping will pay off.

Rotary punches are pretty useless because they limit how far into the work you can go. If you need to make round holes for rivets and snaps Tandy sells an inexpensive Mini Punch set. When the screw on tubes get dull, just get new ones. When you can justify it, invest in a better quality set that you can sharpen yourself, if you want to. If you want to sew pretty, buy the best awls you can afford.

Johanna

[ClayB]

Thonging chisels have their uses- like doing the holes for a buckstitched belt. Punching out laced saddlebags. Mexican braiding and appliqué work done with lace. In fact, I was thinking about this, and I mostly use chisels where lace is involved, not for sewing with thread.

I am not sure we are all on the page here when we are talking about thonging punches. The sewing punches are different than the lacing punches. The sewing punches punch a diamond shaped hole, just like an awl, where the lacing punches make a straight slit, or a slanted slit depending on the style of the punch. I just took my sewing punches out and played with them a little. They put the holes exactly the same as a Tandy #6 overstitch wheel. They punch a hole that is a little large for most sewing thread in my opinion. I did try them to just mark holes like Kate was saying, and it seemed to make it easier for me to then come back and use the awl and actually push the hole through the leather at the right slant. It would be a lot slower to mark them with the punch than with an overstitch wheel. I guess you would have to weigh that against having the proper slant marked. I think it's a useful tip and I something I might use until I learn to do the sewing like Al taught in his book (if I ever do).

Clay

[CitizenKate]

Exactly, Clay, you got the point of what I was saying. With the marks made by the diamond hole chisel, it's very easy to get the awl cuts at consistent angles. My stitching rows also tend to be easier to keep straight with a chisel, too. These are probably not as big of an advantage for someone who is fairly skilled with the use of an awl and an overstitch wheel. That group does not yet include me. :biggrin:

If I get to a point where I'm doing a lot of sewing, sure enough, I'll probably want to switch to the wheel to help me work faster. At that point, it will be worth the practice to learn to get the same results that I get now with a chisel.

Kate

They put the holes exactly the same as a Tandy #6 overstitch wheel. They punch a hole that is a little large for most sewing thread in my opinion. I did try them to just mark holes like Kate was saying, and it seemed to make it easier for me to then come back and use the awl and actually push the hole through the leather at the right slant. It would be a lot slower to mark them with the punch than with an overstitch wheel. I guess you would have to weigh that against having the proper slant marked. I think it's a useful tip and I something I might use until I learn to do the sewing like Al taught in his book (if I ever do).

Edited January 21, 2007 by CitizenKate

[BruceGibson]

I have a few awls that I keep sharp and polished like glass. I even use them occasionally. But, in all honesty, when I have to hand-stitch something (or, if I prefer a hand-stitch on something for aesthetic reasons) I don't use an awl. Don't use a punch, either.

I prep my leather to be stitched, cut my stitch groove, go over it with the appropriate overstitch wheel, and then I drill my stitching holes with a Dremel tool. I use a drill bit the same diameter as my harness needles. It's about as fast as it gets for hand-stitching, and it looks pretty good, too.

Here's a picture of a little hand-stitching (using the Dremel to drill the holes) on a flat-plate rigging for a saddle I'm building. The leather is two layers of Hermann Oak 13/15 ounce skirting. It's pretty thick stuff--close to a half-inch pancaked together--here's a picture of it...

http://www.gibsonprorodeo.com/FLATPLATERIGGING.htm

You still need the leather fingers, or Band-Aids to protect the sensitive parts of your fingers, but I haven't stabbed myself with the Dremel yet...yet.

[MatthewD]

what size bit do you normally use for which needle?

[BruceGibson]

Hi, Matthew,

The bit I use is roughly the same diameter as my harness needles. I also use a fairly thick piece of skirting to push them through the holes in the "sticky" places. I've got the palms for this, but prefer a piece of leather because I don't care to wear a bunch of stuff on my hands. I also have a couple of chap leather "sleeves" that I wear on my little fingers to absorb the wear & tear--they're real simple, and you could cut the fingers off some old cheap gloves and do the same thing. And, as I mentioned earlier, Band-Aids work real well, too.

If you'll give me a day or two, I'll take some pictures of the toys I use for hand-stitching and either post them here or post a few links. I'll also give specifics on the size harness needles I use, the thread and sources for all of it. Right off hand, WalMart's a great source for the Dremel, and there's several flavors to choose from depending on your budget.

My harness needles and thread I get from Weaver Leather, and I'll look up the numbers so I can tell you what I'm using.

[MatthewD]

I would appreciate the pictures and I have a Dremel that I got for Christmas last year that I have been using for woodworking..