Landis 3 Knotting Problem

[Goldshot Ron]

I have read most of the Landis 3 topics that I could remember reading in the past, and I have not found my solution.  By playing with the machine, I have learned a lot, but cannot solve my issue.  The problem started with the machine skipping stitches.  Cleaned and oiled machine, changed thread, adjusted bobbin and still failure.  After not using the machine for a year or more, I decided while social distancing I'd fix the darn machine.  Problem: top thread does not tension around bobbin thread.  There are loops hanging below the leather, and the machine bobbin shuttle hangs up due to the loose thread.  The bobbin threads out easily, but the top tension doesn't pull the knot into the leather; thus a large loop forms.  All of this happens within 3 cycles of the hook and awl.  Any Landis experts out there?  Called Campbell-Randall, but just left a message, maybe they are social distancing also.

Ron

[Wizcrafts]

Make sure the top thread is feeding solidly through the tension assembly and that the tensioner is not releasing until you raise the foot.

[Goldshot Ron]

I'll check the top tension assembly; however, it seems tight.  I'm not quite sure how to really change anything in that upper configuration of blocks and wheels.

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

Does it do this no matter how heavy or how light of work you have under the foot? You can adjust take-up, and if it is adjusted for very heavy work and you try to sew light stuff, you'll get loops.  Otherwise, I'd bet you have a problem with one or both of your thread brakes, in fact I would bet on that before the take-up adjustment.  I'm far from an expert on the Landis 3, but those thread brakes can look good, and the tension seems fine, but they'll cause trouble when they get some wear.  

[Wizcrafts]

Maybe the brakes are slick and need to be cleaned off???

[Goldshot Ron]

OK, thanks for the advice.  I'll check the blocks.  I am only testing on single ply 12/13 oz., I'll try two pieces.  At least, I've oiled everything for the first time in a while.

[Goldshot Ron]

Talked with Randall/Campbell today.  Miles suggested that the thread brake blocks may be dirty or worn.  He also said what I have heard before, to change from bonded nylon to polyester thread.  The saga continues.  Also, see photo one: what does this adjustment bolt do?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Goldshot Ron

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

On 5/26/2020 at 8:28 PM, Goldshot Ron said:

Talked with Randall/Campbell today.  Miles suggested that the thread brake blocks may be dirty or worn.  He also said what I have heard before, to change from bonded nylon to polyester thread.  The saga continues.  Also, see photo one: what does this adjustment bolt do?

That is your take-up adjustment.  I forget which way to move it, it's the opposite of a Randall, but that doesn't tell you much.  It's good to set up a machine on one piece of skirting, but I would adjust that bolt until you see a difference.  Then go from there.

Curious what the serial number is on your machine.  Most I have seen do not have that gauge, making me think it is a later model.  I am fascinated by the serial numbers on these machines and the almost non-existent history on the Landis company.

Edited to add: moving that take-up adjustment could possibly completely take care of your looping problem.  You will need to learn when you have to move it for different types.of work.

I agree with Campbell Randall's advice on thread.  A friend and I were setting up a Randall that had not been used for at least 50 years, and we switched from nylon to poly and just like that the thing went from kind of sewing, to making a pretty darn good stitch.

Edited May 28, 2020 by BigSiouxSaddlery

[Goldshot Ron]

Received my polyester thread order, but haven't set it up yet.  Miles at Campbell/Randall also mentioned to pull the thread off the spool from the side, not spiraling upward as the new machines.  Haven't tried that yet either.  The serial number of this machine is 10786, last patent number was Nov. 28, 1911.  Short history that I was told about machine: I purchased it from a fellow in Cuba, NM, who purchased it from Sheridan Leather when they closed, and they had purchased it from the King Estate.  The machine has covered more ground than I have in my life; oh wait, it is around 109 years old, I still have time.  Thanks for the info. Sioux.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

On 5/29/2020 at 7:24 PM, Goldshot Ron said:

Received my polyester thread order, but haven't set it up yet.  Miles at Campbell/Randall also mentioned to pull the thread off the spool from the side, not spiraling upward as the new machines.  Haven't tried that yet either.  The serial number of this machine is 10786, last patent number was Nov. 28, 1911.  Short history that I was told about machine: I purchased it from a fellow in Cuba, NM, who purchased it from Sheridan Leather when they closed, and they had purchased it from the King Estate.  The machine has covered more ground than I have in my life; oh wait, it is around 109 years old, I still have time.  Thanks for the info. Sioux.

This “history” sounds a lot like what I was told about my #3! I even found receipts from the Cuba NM shop!

I’ve driven through Cuba NM... never would have guessed a shop was there! 

[Goldshot Ron]

Your machine is painted the same color as mine.  The fellow that I bought mine from was rebuilding a second Landis 3.  

[MikeRock]

Did you get it from Don Voss in Cuba?

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

18 hours ago, MikeRock said:

Did you get it from Don Voss in Cuba?

No I bought mine from a man’s wife… He had recently passed. Morgan has been retained by the way she told me that he bought the machine from the King family in Wyoming, they had rebuilt it is there! I found paperwork with a Cuba New Mexico address on it! Give me a couple of minutes and I’ll try to find it and post it!

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

4 hours ago, turbotexas said:

No I bought mine from a man’s wife… He had recently passed... she told me that he bought the machine from the King family in Wyoming, they had rebuilt it there! I found paperwork with a Cuba New Mexico address on it! Give me a couple of minutes and I’ll try to find it and post it!

I had to spell check! Voice recognition sucks lol

[Goldshot Ron]

Well guys, I had to look at my receipt for the machine.I bought my machine from Russ Jones in Aztec, NM.  He has a little company called CRJ Ventures.  Nice fellow.

[sbrownn]

Try using Tiger thread, it is pre waxed and the wax adds some friction making the brakes more effective.  I know this is counterintuitive as wax should make it "slicker" but in my experience it doesn't.  I have been running it on my Campbell Randall for the last year or so and it drags enough that I had to completely remove the tension apparatus from my shuttles.

[Goldshot Ron]

Next chapter, same saga....I purchased some polyester thread from Campbell Randall.  Still having problems.  After hours of trail and error, I have the problem down to the needle.  The needle isn't releasing the top thread after the bobbin is shuttled through the loop.  I have cleaned, oiled and adjusted everything in the shuttle/needle assembly.  I had purchased a pack of needles and awls from Weaver a few years ago.  They are tagged for Landis 3, so I hope they are correct.  Any more suggestions from the experts?  

Thanks, Ron

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

 

 

maybe this will help? 

[Goldshot Ron]

My needle catches the top tread and pulls it down, the shuttle makes its pass downward and back up.  During this movement, there is (what I call a stutter step) movement of the needle slightly upward; this should allow for the release of the top thread.  IT doesn't release, and the shuttle is stopped by the thread still attached to the needle.  At this point I cannot figure out any more ways to adjust the machine to properly release the thread from the needle.  The problem has to be something simple that I am too blind to see.