sewing machine from Leightons

[skipj]

Has anyone purchased a sewing machine from Leightons in Canada? Their Mach 1 looks like an Artisan 3000 but seems to have a much smaller capacity as to thickness of leather it will sew? The price seems good and the say it will work for holster and belt work. Also, I wonder how you would get it through customs?

Skip

[Artisan Dave]

I will try to answer your question as unbiased as I can.

To begin, I work with the fine folks at Artisan - I want you to know that right out front.

Having said that, I can tell you I know John Leighton and used to sell him a lot of equipment from the 70's until I joined Artisan a year ago.

John is a very nice person and has been selling Industrial Sewing Machines for a very long time.

To the best of my knowledge, his Mach 1 is imported directly from China. In order for you to import the machine without any duties, you will need a NAFTA certificate stating the country of origin was Canada (not China). John may well do this for you - and it will be your decision if you want to go that route.

If you look at the info published by John, the claim is the machine will sew up to 1/2" of leather. The Toro will easily sew 3/4".

The Mach 1 is shipped with a clutch motor - The Toro is shipped with an Electronic Servo Motor. While an experienced operator can 'feather' a treadle to attain a similar but not identical 'stitch by stitch' effect, why order a new machine with outdated technology?

Every Toro is shipped with extra needles, an extra spool of thread, a high tech Halogen lamp....and on and on. Not to mention lifetime access to our Customer Service Department - where you actually speak to a real person immediately - usually myself, Steve, or Jerry.

We final assemble all our Toro machines here in Commerce, CA - so we have stock of EVERY SINGLE PART IN THE MACHINE. Should you ever require ANY part, it is shipped the same day. We also have a 2-yr Warranty on all our equipment and I am not sure what John is offering.

I can assure you of this: If you maintain (a few drops of oil regularly, etc.) your Artisan machine will out live you.

In other words, it is an investment that will last you a lifetime. I have no idea what John is selling the Mach 1 for, but if you divide the price difference by the number of years the machine will be used (10? 20? 30?) - you will be able to make your decision a lot easier.

[abn]

Dave, thanks for taking the time to write all that up. I'm into hand-stitching myself, but it's nice to know that a company like Artisan exists, as well as some of the advantages of your machines and your service. If I ever decide to give my fingers a rest, I'll keep Artisan in mind.

Regards, -Alex

[bruce johnson]

Dave,

Isn't the Mach I a needle feed and the 3000 has a walking foot? Actually the advantages/disadvantages of the different feed systems might make a good topic. Especially coming from someone with 30 years in the business. At one time I suggested this to a supplier for a LCSJ article. Here we can be a little more wide open.

[esantoro]

The Mach 1 isn't much like the Artisan 3000. The Mach 1, while a good very basic heavy leather stitcher, does not have reverse (though not really needed), and has only a lower feed dog as the material feeding mechanism. Depending on the actual feed dog used, this can tend to chew up leather quite a bit.

That said, I have the same machine but from a different seller. It does a great job of sewing from 69 thread to 415 (though stitch length consistency can be off if you're not careful, due to the lower feed dog as the only feeding mechanism) , which my Juki 441 clone has difficulties doing (but this may be due to my lack of experience).

ed

Has anyone purchased a sewing machine from Leightons in Canada? Their Mach 1 looks like an Artisan 3000 but seems to have a much smaller capacity as to thickness of leather it will sew? The price seems good and the say it will work for holster and belt work. Also, I wonder how you would get it through customs?

Skip

[Art]

Hi Skip,

Clones. I have seen and used quite a few, and talked with more than a few purveyors. They are all for the most part made in factories in China (mainland) and Tiawan. The castings may or may not be made by the same factories. The insides may be made in China (mainland), Tiawan, South Korea, the Asian sub-continent, Japan, Mexico, Germany, or the United States. The parts mix is determined by the purveyor and it all comes together in China or Tiawan, then the finished product is shipped back here. So some are vanilla Chinese clones, born and bred, some are hybrids. This is all done to meet a price target that the purveyor thinks will make his product competitive, and he hopes reliable. Some of the sellers have been in this market and business long enough to get this right, maybe some haven't. I've seen some come out of the box with cosmoline (or whatever sticky gooy crud they use to preserve them in storage) on them and others come to you complete and ready to sew what you requested it to, put the head on the stand, attach belt, plug in and sew. The job of the seller is to get all this stuff together and set-up and then shipped to you, because you are NOT a factory with a bunch of machine techs who setup and maintain their machines to make them perform.

If there is a big difference in price, ask yourself why. It has to be Quality, Service, Profit. If the price is lower, what's missing, and is that acceptable to you.

Artisan, Ferdco, Luberto, and now Weaver are the "Big Four" here in the US for the clones, and the prices and products are comparable. You'll get good Quality and Service from all of them. You'll see all of them at major shows, and if you don't, then I would give them a pass. I want someone there when I need them, on the phone or in person. And yes some of the cost of my machine is in them going to these shows, but I get to sew as much as I want on what I am interested in while there and badger them with questions so it is worth it.

If you want a Mach 1 go up to Leightos's and sew the hell out of one, if you like it and are ok with their service, then buy it, as far as that goes, put it in the back seat and trunk, tell the customs guys you bought it there and pay the duty (if any, there is NAFTA you know), it can't be much.

Remember, you generally buy one of these ONCE for a small shop, any you'll never wear it out. So why not buy a good one even if it is expensive, if you like it, buy it so you can start using it.

Another point; good clones are sometimes better than the originals. Even the Juki 441s needed modification to make them really good for leatherwork. Leatherwork is a really small segment of the sewing world, not so in the haydays before synthetics; these clones (Artisan, Ferdco, Weaver, and others) are designed for leatherwork, something the major manufacturers (Juki, Adler, Pfaff) aren't doing anymore, there is just not a big market for them. So it is take a big commercial big name machine designed to sew synthetics and safety gear and modify it to sew leather (with the corresponding Juki, Adler, or Pfaff pricetag), or design a machine with those mods and have it made in Asia. This is why we still use the old iron so much, it was made to do the work we want, definately NOT what the rest of the synthetic world is doing.

Art

Has anyone purchased a sewing machine from Leightons in Canada? Their Mach 1 looks like an Artisan 3000 but seems to have a much smaller capacity as to thickness of leather it will sew? The price seems good and the say it will work for holster and belt work. Also, I wonder how you would get it through customs?

Skip

[Artisan Dave]

The Toro 3000 and 4000 are both Walking Foot, Compound Needle Feed stitchers.

[skipj]

Thanks everyone for the info. I guess I'm old enough I don't care if the machine lasts over 15 years. I just do leather work as a hobby, no hopes of even doing it for a second income. I tried hobby businesses before and it just ruined the hobby's for me. I had to please other people and worry about the business side of things. I wasn't successful enough for it to pay enough to put up with the hassles. Perhaps I should have started out asking my question with that in mind.

A number of different feeding mechanisms were mentioned in your answers. I used Artisan machines in the holster making class in Wickenburg and have no problem with them, they worked great. Just the price was high for my use. I'd like to buy a used machine, but don't know of anywhere in Michigan where I could find something suitable for my use.

SkipJ

[The Major]

I have a Mach 1 and for what I use it for it works well. I have had to make several modifications to make it work better.

I have a tendency to hand sew more than anything.

Everything Art said is true. John is an excellent guy to deal with.

When I bought mine, I was looking at a tippman boss. But since I found the Mach 1 at just about the same price, I went with the power unit.

The motor is does take some getting used to to get the slow stitching, but you get used to it.

I highly recommend trying some machines out. A mistake I made, but definitely not a regret. John will work you through any problem you might have.

But try others out.

Edited September 13, 2007 by The Major

[Artisan Dave]

Artisan and others will be exhibiting in Wichita Falls in October - why don't you take a trip and test drive us and the competition.

[$$hobby]

i was going to get a Mach 1, but i opted for the Mach 3. I can tell you that i love it and wonder why i watied so long to get a real machine to do what i wanted.

My machine didint have any problems and worked right out of the box, once i got it assembled. Its not going any where with its wieght i can tell you.

If youre worried about customs, dont. He takes care of that. the only small issue is that he usually doesnt arrange for shipment to your door. He makes the shipment to a local hub somewhere. If you want it to your door, the shipping will cost you more.

Yes, if you can, test drive one. i strongly urge you to test drive as many as you can. I found that some of those machine dont do as the sales people say they will. If you know what youre going to be sewing, bring some sample material.

[Randy Cornelius]

I went to Sheridan 3 yars ago with the purpose of buying a sewing machine, I tried them all. I did not buy one at that time. I came home and shopped a few other and made a dicision to buy an Artisan and I have not been disappointed. Anytime I have called for tech support they have been there, talked me through any problems I may have had. The shipped they used dropped the box off a dock and broke the motor mount. They replaced the parts not questions asked.

The servo moter went bad, they replaced it no questions asked. When I have a brain **rt they helped me fix it. They are the nicest buch of people you would ever want to deal with. And to top it all off they all speak English!!!! Something you don't find with tech support these days.

I can switch from 346 thread to 138 by changing needles and with very few adjustments.

Be sure to buy extra bobbins you will use them.

You will not be disappointed in buying an Artisan 3000

Randy