Belt grinder

[dikman]

I have a belt grinder which I use a lot - metal, wood, plastic, nylon and yes, leather. The problem is it's too fast and burns the leather and wood if I'm not very careful. So I bit the boolit, so to speak, and treated myself to a new grinder, something I've wanted for years. This one is designed primarily for knifemakers and runs 48" belts, and I went the whole hog and bought a 3-phase motor with it and a separate VFD. It took a while to figure out how to programme the VFD but now I can run the grinder from almost nothing to flat out! No more burning leather.

I'm so impressed with the VFD/3-phase motor setup that I'm thinking of fitting one to my lathe.

[Grumpymann]

congrats!

[chuck123wapati]

very cool!! I see some new leather tools in your future as well as unburned leather. That is a nice setup.

[dikman]

Figured I should post a couple of pics, after all we all like looking at pics.

The little box on top of the motor is the remote control I just fitted, so I don't have to keep opening the VFD enclosure. The platen arm can be tilted/rotated to place the contact wheels at the front and there is a work table, of course, but I normally leave it off. The grinder alongside is my original one, which uses 36" belts but is too fast for leather. I made a fitting for it to use 48" belts but now that I have the new one I decided to go back to the 36" on it. The white pipe is a piece of plastic conduit that I slid on the handle that releases the belt for changing, it's a bit easier on the hand than the metal handle.

 

[RockyAussie]

VERY ....VERY ...VERY NICE. I LIKE A LOT. sorry to shout but that is BEAUTIFUL. I want one now!!!!!

[Bert51]

Wow, what size belt do you have there.

Envious is one word I can think of, Very ENVIOUS in fact.

Bert.

[chuck123wapati]

That is awesome!!!!!!!!!!

[Scoutmom103]

Very nice

 

[garypl]

Very nice - what brand is it?

Gary

[dikman]

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed with it. It's Australian-made (for a change ) - https://www.artisansupplies.com.au/product-category/knife-making-supplies/knifemaking-belt-and-disc-grinder-parts-and-accessories/84-engineering-48-inch-belt-grinders/

I first saw one at the Adelaide Knife Show a couple of years ago but I thought it was a bit expensive for my needs. I recently started thinking about getting a new belt grinder and started looking around. I found a beautiful unit, also Australian made, called the Radiusmaster, but it was over twice what I ended up paying for this one! I also wanted a 72" unit, but the problem I had with that is they take up more space, which would be an issue where I wanted to put it. This unit turned out a lot more compact than I expected, which is a bonus.

I toyed with the idea of building one as the construction of this is actually relatively simple and Artisansupplies also sell all the various wheels etc, but in the end I figured it was too much trouble so just bought one. I bought the motor from them as their pricing was good, but they wanted $800+ for a programmed VFD!! Mine cost me $200 off ebay (and I could have bought a different one for half that) plus a bit of work fitting it and watching lots of youtube vids to figure out how to programme it.

It will outlast me and I've no doubt it will eventually be "inherited" by one of my sons-in-law.

Edit: Bert, belt size is 48" x 2", (a standard size).

Edited June 3, 2020 by dikman

[RockyAussie]

Australian made and top quality it just gets better still. Thanks for the link. Now I just gotta spend the next few months dreaming and agonising about how and when.

If its not to big an ask could you post some pics of it showing the full range of the angles it can go to? Is dust extraction somehow possible?

 

[Bert51]

I am think about the dust collection also Brian, I think some thing similar to yours would work well. Brian, do you have a cyclone or just a bag?

Sadly I have been told no more toys, until I start using what I have.

Bert.

[dikman]

2 hours ago, Bert51 said:

Sadly I have been told no more toys, until I start using what I have.

Bert.

There's no doubt that this is a bit of an extravagance, given that I'm not a knifemaker, but I thought what the hell, I'm not getting any younger and I do like nice machinery (read:toys ).

Brian, I'll take a couple more photos shortly, there are a couple of vids on youtube that the makers put out. As for dust collection, normally knifemakers put a bucket of water below the belt to catch the metal grindings, but dust from wood/antler/leather is another issue, something that I'm thinking about. I figure a collector of some sort (probably from the plumbing shop) and a piece of pipe to attach a vacuum line to, supported on an adjustable stand to move around below the belt should work.

[dikman]

Took some photos while I'm waiting for my frozen scones to thaw.

The third one shows the platen arm rotated so it can be used as a slack belt. The work table has two settings, as you can see from the slots in pic 4. There is also an attachment available (which I didn't buy but may make myself) to allow use of a very small diameter contact wheel, it's on their website.

 

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, dikman said:

As for dust collection, normally knifemakers put a bucket of water below the belt to catch the metal grindings, but dust from wood/antler/leather is another issue, something that I'm thinking about. I figure a collector of some sort (probably from the plumbing shop) and a piece of pipe to attach a vacuum line to, supported on an adjustable stand to move around below the belt should work.

Hi mate

Don't listen to knifemakers or woodturners, they both tell themselves fairytales that their thing doesn't generate breathable dust, to get out of setting up proper dust collection.  And I get it, it's hard to do, it takes a big bite out of your budget, your space and your time.  But in reality anything that sands or cuts generates fine airborne dust that lingers in the air for a very long time, and we breathe it.   For machines like yours you need a 3HP dust collector with 6" hoses, and the DC machine needs to be outside the shed, otherwise all it does, regardless if it has felt bags or whatever, is mince the fine dust into even finer dust and releases it back in the air.  And yes it will probably cost as much as your belt grinder to do it properly.  You probably think I'm crazy right now but you can check for yourself, talk to a dust extraction expert (not a salesperson) or check woodworkforums which has an active Australian specific dust extraction subforum.   Put it in the plans long term.

What you can do short term (which is what I've done as I simply have no more room inside or outside the shed) is look into good ventilation, which is cheap and easy and very effective.  Look into greenhouse supplies on ebay, they have those deep, turbine looking vents for a couple hundred bucks that you can install in your wall and they move air very efficiently.  Dont get anything with a shallow profile no matter what the "cfm rating" says, they just don't do.  Here's what mine looks like

and here it is up on the wall

I just crack the opposite window and keep the vent permanently on, it sucks and replaces all the air in the shed in a matter of seconds.  Depending on the size of your shed you might need a second or a bigger unit (my shed is only 3X4m) .  It took me one morning to install it but it's well worth it.  Zero footprint in the shop, cheap, quiet and very powerful, if I forget to open the window then I literally need two hands to open the door, that's the suction power you're looking for.   I still need to wear a mask while cutting or sanding, but I can take it off immediately after without worrying about waking up one day with chronic respiratory disease (or worse).

Before you do anything, you can also buy an airborne dust meter, they are very cheap these days (under $100) and it will give you a better idea what's going on.  This is mine, if you're interested I can dig up the ebay shop i got it from

Cheap chinese and inaccurate unit, but directionally it gives you a very good idea about breathable dust levels.  This is what it showed in my shed with the vent on/off

 

Anyway, don't leave it mate.  The dust and shavings you can see on the floor?  don't worry about those, it's the ones you can't see that are suspended in the air you need to worry about.  And yes, grinding metal makes them too.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Spyros

[Spyros]

By the way sanding leather is the worst, if the light is just right you can literally see the fibers floating in the air after you're done.  And it might be in my head but I think they are cockroach magnets as well 

Now having said all that (and hopefully I didnt ruin your mood), I have to say dust or no dust I'm also extremely envious of your belt grinder

Now time to get an Everneat as well and be a proper knife and tool maker

Edited June 4, 2020 by Spyros

[dikman]

Thanks Spyros, you really know how to cheer someone up! My original intention was to move it (temporarily) outside the shed onto a table when I wanted to do any extended/very dusty grinding, but by the time I got it all set up I realised it wasn't a practical idea. Oh well. I generally wear a dust mask if I'm doing extended grinding as I'm well aware of the dust it creates, you only have to blow your nose afterwards to see!! For the time being I'm going to rig up a catcher right under the belt that can be connected to a shop vac outside the door. I've seen how much of a mess sanding leather makes and the beauty of this machine is I can slow it down for wood/leather/antler so the dust won't be thrown up everywhere by a high speed belt, theoretically the vac should work under those conditions. I know the dust extraction systems you're talking about as I looked into one a long time ago, the difficulty I had (have) is where to put it - outside, obviously, but then I will have to build something to protect it from the elements and given where my gear is that's a problem.

[Spyros]

Yeah sorry mate, I realised after it was all probably too much info LOL

The main thing is the machine kicks butt and you'll have a tonne of fun with it whatever you make!  I guess my main message is before you spend any serious bucks on DC try the vent thing, worst case scenario the air in the shed will always smell fresh

[Bert51]

I have a little bit of time playing with cyclones (wet and dry) and the last one and piping came from a scrap yard, maybe a quick look at your local scrap yard may find some cheaper bit and pieces.

Just a thought.

Bert.

[dikman]

Local scrap yard? No such thing. We do have a rubbish dump, of course, but the days of being able to rummage through it and find useful stuff are long gone.

[Spyros]

You might be able to but in a more organised way these days.  In VIC for example there is Outlook who employ people with disabilities and they operate recycled goods stores in 4 landfills.  Basically they screen what private cars bring in (not trucks) and if   they find something salvageable like a bicycle or timber/metal etc they have a shop at the entrance and sell it there.  I don't know if they are technically not for profit but they do receive funding and their main purpose is to employ people, so prices are basically next to nothing.  Probably worth supporting them.

https://www.outlookvic.org.au/outlook-recycled-goods-stores

[RockyAussie]

10 hours ago, Bert51 said:

I am think about the dust collection also Brian, I think some thing similar to yours would work well. Brian, do you have a cyclone or just a bag?

Sadly I have been told no more toys, until I start using what I have.

Bert.

I use a bit of a combination really. I use a dust bag system as well as a fairly powerful wall fan just behind the grinder to help collect the fine particles that the main suction doesn't manage to catch. The main one is a 2hp 1200cfm I think located just outside the sander. If I try going any stronger on this one I cant control a belt from being sucked into the tube. I have tried to use screens but then you can't keep the belts from getting stuck onto the screen all the time. With the wall fan I found it is improved a far bit by building a shroud that comes forward over over the machine. This serves to increase the air speed right where you need it. You can see in this first picture where I have a cardboard box shroud coming from the back. Now I have established how far forward the shroud needs to be I aim to improve it beyond the cardboard one.

This pic shows the perspex box I fashioned and hinged with a piano hinge and under the belt you can see a plumbing fitting I used which feeds into a 4"flexable tube.

That then goes outside into this garden shed which is inside a semi enclosed space

There is also some vents put into the side of this to increase air flow when the doors are closed which I do to keep the noise down.

Even with all of this done I would still like to improve it more if possible.

@Spyros I would love to be able to get a hold of one of those dust particle count meters if you would like to share from where I could obtain one. I am also interested to know a little more on your wall extractor and from where to get one. Thank you for going to the effort to share your findings with us all.

@dikman, Thank you very much for taking those pictures. I have seen one of those video's now and I am gobsmaked really. I have to put a link in here cause I reckon it just has to be seen (sparks dust and all)  I almost want to start making knives now- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfbp_Lp-xY

 

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

 

@Spyros I would love to be able to get a hold of one of those dust particle count meters if you would like to share from where I could obtain one. I am also interested to know a little more on your wall extractor and from where to get one. Thank you for going to the effort to share your findings with us all.

You need to mount the dust meter as close to your head level as possible.  The fan you can put across the room from a window, but you probably need bigger or more than one.  

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Household-PM2-5-Detector-Module-Air-Quality-Dust-Sensor-LCD-Display-Monitor-/302755086491?hash=item467d9c009b

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271463941313

i don't know that particular seller from China, but the hydroponics dude was pretty good

Edited June 4, 2020 by Spyros

[Bert51]

Wow @dikman I just watched the video of your new toy and I like it, I have played with a belt sander before , but never seen any thing like that. I will make a real nice knife.

Where I used to work we had the little vacuum dust meters that I had to where for a full shift, but they where sent off to a lab to be analyzed, that Spyros put the link up for looks like it would give you all you need.

We have a scrap metal dealer in town and he was only to happy to sell me tubing and anything else I could find, I found it cheap and he was getting better then scrap prices.

Bert.

[RockyAussie]

10 hours ago, Spyros said:

You need to mount the dust meter as close to your head level as possible.  The fan you can put across the room from a window, but you probably need bigger or more than one.  

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Household-PM2-5-Detector-Module-Air-Quality-Dust-Sensor-LCD-Display-Monitor-/302755086491?hash=item467d9c009b

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271463941313

i don't know that particular seller from China, but the hydroponics dude was pretty good

Thank you for that info @Spyros I will have to get myself one of those metres. Sanding many thousands of belts over the years has not done my lungs much good along with a filthy smoking habit on top.