How to set a copper rivet

[Johanna]

The title of a page before this one was "do it yourself saddle repair", so I couldn't resist looking.

How to set a rivet

This shows step-by-step how to set a copper rivet.

Johanna

[esantoro]

Thanks for this link, Johanna. After looking at the website, I went and bought a box of 3/4" copper rivets from OTB, figuring I could just trim them down to whatever size I need.

Ed

The title of a page before this one was "do it yourself saddle repair", so I couldn't resist looking.

How to set a rivet

This shows step-by-step how to set a copper rivet.

Johanna

[esantoro]

I've been playing around with these copper rivets and love 'em. When I set them I am completely sure they will hold through anything, not so with double-capped brass Jiffy rivets and capped tubular rivets.

I'm not too sure how the copper will mesh with my silver and brass hardware, so now I'm thinking about getting some solid brass rivets. Are they set the same way?

I did notice with the copper rivets that you really do have to trim the posts down to 1/16", maybe a smidgen less, for them to flatten properly.

[JohnD]

Not to hijack the thread but,

Ed, I ordered some rivets from here http://hansonrivet.com/w02.htm . It took me some time to figure out what I needed.I ended up calling them and the guy helped me figure out what I wanted. I think they were about $12.00 per hundred for the ones I ordered. The caps were about $4 per hundred.( check out the caps here http://hansonrivet.com/w05b.htm you can see how well designed thay are to hold the rivets). I guess not the cheapest, but when I put two pieces of leather strap together I could not pull them apart. If you know what you're looking for you can order exactly what you want, including brass or stainless. Hope this helps.

John

Oh yeah, don't buy the tool they sell for setting the rivets without a cap. It's like $25 and doesn't seem to work right, for me anyway.

Edited September 21, 2007 by JohnD

[esantoro]

Hi John,

Can you tell me exactly what head type and size of tubular rivets you ordered from Hansens. I was trying to work with them six months ago but they didn't have the sizes I needed. For steel tubular rivets I stuck with OTB, about $5 for 100 and about $4 for 100 caps (brass plated only, old stock at that).

Now I'm thinking of going with solid rivets. I like the method of using brute force to smash down the rivet post onto the burr. I get the feel that this is the strongest hold, especially for parts of my briefcases that have to bear a 30lbs load, though thick saddlestitching is also used in these areas. I want to make sure a rivet never pops out on a customer.

My only concern with the solid rivets is that the rivet backs on my straps and two locations on the back of the briefcase (unless I forgo rivets here) will be exposed, and the look of the smashed down post onto the burr is not the most elegant. I think I may have a solution though: use the solid brass rivets only on those areas that bear a load, three in the handle assembly (backs will be concealed under suede lining) and for each of the two shoulder strap D-ring fobs (if I really want to obsess, I could work out away to conceal this rivet back too, hmmmm). I would use the double-capped brass jiffy rivets in all other places.

I would also like to make a bag with copper rivets, but then I would also need copper plated double capped jiffys, and I'm not sure if they are even made.

Anyway, I'm calling Hansens tomorrow to get their prices on the solid brass rivets.

Ed

[Luke Hatley]

HEY STILL WORKING ON THAT R & D ARENT YOU.

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO MOUNT THE COPPER RIVET

WITH THE WASHERS ON THE INSIDE ? FIND A WAY TO DO IT.

OK NOW... WHEN I WAS WORKING IN THE SADDLE SHOP, WE WOULD

PUT A LITTLE DECORATIVE TOUCH ON THE COPPER RIVETS WE SET.

THERE IS A TOOL THAT WILL GIVE THE HEAD OF THE

COPPER RIVET CONVEX PROFILE. WEAVER SELLS IT.

TRY IT, I THINK YOU WILL LIKE IT.

ANOTHER THING THAT WOULD BE GREAT ARE THE BRASS TUBE RIVETS

AND CAP I HAVE SEEN SOME THAT ARE VERY THIN

AND ALSO THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE HEAVY.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Luke Hatley

[esantoro]

Hi Luke,

I seem always to be doing R&D. I've been looking for brass tubular rivets. Ghurka seems to use a a very nice light-weight brass rivet, but I suppose they have them specially made.

Do you happen to know where to get those brass rivets you're talking about. All I have right now and am using on my bags in some places are the brass coated and nickel coated steel tubular rivets with caps. When I tried to check with Hansens and other industrial suppliers on the brass tubular rivets, sizes were limited, though Hansens was the most helpful. I'm calling them tomorrow.

ed

[Luke Hatley]

Ed, Hansens is a very large business, surley they will help.

the REAL BRASS RIVETS, i got them from STONEHEDGE LEATHER

bought them on e-bay. I think Joanne has mention them on this

fourm. There might be a link to them .

[Roger]

weaver sells solid brass tubular rivets and caps

[bruce johnson]

Just saw this thread, I set quite a lot of copper rivets. Someone mentioned the river head domer.

Shameless plug, I am in not way afilliated, etc. Bob Douglas makes a three piece set for each of the three common sizes. One sets the burr, one peens the shank after it is cut to length, and the third domes the head. There are a few things I would not do without, and my wife says the setters are one of 'em. My wife will tell other makers or look at something in a shop and comment that they should get a set from Bob. Some guys have said that the domer on Bob's will sometimes overlap a #9 head (I think it is sold as an 8/9?). I haven't had that problem with any of my #9s from a few different sources. The shanks on Bob's setter/peener/domer have one, two, and three grooves, so you can tell which order to pick them up if they are all laying together on the bench. You can order them from Bob, or Vandy sells them at Sheridan Leather Outfitters.

One thing I would differ on from the tutorial. If someone used my hoofnippers to cut rivets, I would be a bit upset. I used to use endcut nippers with longer handles. I started using compound action end nippers last year after I dislocated the thumb. Quite the deal, and now just bought a really cool old pair in an antique emporium ($5, it pays to look in those barrels) that are neater looking, bigger, and even easier.

[esantoro]

I picked up an Osborne #9 tool from OTB along with my #9 rivets. I understand what the hole and the concave part are for on the end of the tool, but what is the larger hole that runs through the side of the head for?

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I used to use that hole to set rivets that were too long. Just lay the setter on its side and whack away. I had a mechanic/machinist laugh hysterically at me several years ago. The hole is to hang up the setter on a pegboard or nail on the wall. That is why the hole is bigger according to him. Now THAT makes sense to me.

[esantoro]

Thanks, Bruce. I would never have figured out that the hole was simply for hanging up the tool. I like your idea better.

[Art]

Hi Ed,

The Brass rivets with burrs are really hard, it is way easier to cut them off with a Dremel than to nip them off with nippers, even compound leverage ones, you get a pretty clean cut on copper, but nippers on the brass can bugger up the cut pretty good. Might want to practice with one before you do it for real.

Art

Hi John,

Can you tell me exactly what head type and size of tubular rivets you ordered from Hansens. I was trying to work with them six months ago but they didn't have the sizes I needed. For steel tubular rivets I stuck with OTB, about $5 for 100 and about $4 for 100 caps (brass plated only, old stock at that).

Now I'm thinking of going with solid rivets. I like the method of using brute force to smash down the rivet post onto the burr. I get the feel that this is the strongest hold, especially for parts of my briefcases that have to bear a 30lbs load, though thick saddlestitching is also used in these areas. I want to make sure a rivet never pops out on a customer.

My only concern with the solid rivets is that the rivet backs on my straps and two locations on the back of the briefcase (unless I forgo rivets here) will be exposed, and the look of the smashed down post onto the burr is not the most elegant. I think I may have a solution though: use the solid brass rivets only on those areas that bear a load, three in the handle assembly (backs will be concealed under suede lining) and for each of the two shoulder strap D-ring fobs (if I really want to obsess, I could work out away to conceal this rivet back too, hmmmm). I would use the double-capped brass jiffy rivets in all other places.

I would also like to make a bag with copper rivets, but then I would also need copper plated double capped jiffys, and I'm not sure if they are even made.

Anyway, I'm calling Hansens tomorrow to get their prices on the solid brass rivets.

Ed

[Mike Craw]

Guys,

One thing to watch for with the Douglas rivet tools - Don't use a steel hammer on them, they mushroom bad. Don Butler had a set at Saddle Week in Sheridan last year that looked like he used a sledge hammer on them! Carlos and I use a good size poly head hammer, and they work great and look like they just came out of the box! If you're going to set many rivets and they will show in your work, these are worth the money for ease of use and excellent function.

Mike

[esantoro]

Hi Mike,

I've been wanting to ask this for a long time. I've got a yellow poly mallet from Tandy but have been thinking it's a bit too light for setting rivets, especially copper rivets. Can you suggest a good size (weight) poly or rawhide mallet for setting rivets?

ed

[Johanna]

Good grief, Ed, you're trying to set copper rivets with a poly mallet? Get yourself a maul and save your elbow the reverberations! If you're going to be doing this full-time, you have to take care of your hands and arms. You can seriously hurt yourself, over time, using a poly mallet trying to do heavy hardware pounding. I use the rawhide maul in the shop for 3-D stamps, alphabets, all hardware and anything I need to whack hard. On the smaller snaps and rivets, the weight of the maul is enough to set them, and it saves time and effort. A maul only costs maybe $20-$25 from HC or Tandy.

Johanna

[JohnD]

Ed,

I ordered 9/64 truss or oval head solid brass tubular rivets. ( they were actually only $6/100)

I am actually going to call them again here soon to order some other sizes.

John

[esantoro]

John,

I called Hanson's today, but again they didn't have the sizes I was asking for. I'll try the 9/64. Did you get solid brass caps with those. Last time I asked, they had only steel.

Ed

[Mike Craw]

Hey Ed,

Johanna makes a good point about getting tools that will serve you well in the future. Rather than buying a poly mallet large enough to do you any good, a 2 pound maul will serve to do other jobs as well. The point I was making was to use something that won't mushroom those rivet tools. I've seen some of them that started out 5/8 th in diameter that were mushroomed to over an inch of split, jagged metal on top.

I like the delrin or nylon headed mauls rather than rawhide, because rawhide mallets tend to flake and deform. My full-time tooling mallet is a 16 oz. nylon head I got from Barry King when we were out in Sheridan for Saddle Week last year. I saw a photo of Chuck Stormes at his tooling bench in the latest Western Horseman. He's using what appears to be a 1 to 1.5 inch square piece of wood about 18" long with rawhide wrapped around each end. Both ends look like they have been tooled with. It just depends on what works for you. I have almost as much fun trying new stuff as I do tooling!

Mike

[Peter Ellis]

I'll recommend another source for rivets, RJ Leahy. They carry a wide selection of fasteners, more focused on industrial than craft, but good prices on copper rivets and burrs, and quite a selection of solid metal rivets.

Brass is much harder than copper. Harder to cut, harder to pein. Piening brass rivets is not much easier than piening stainless steel ones. I'm not sure that anyone is making rivet sets I would recommend using on brass or stainless. A set for those would need to be a good hardened steel.

They're best set with a hammer (either a ball pien or a cross pien) and some skill, imo.

Also, if you have contacts with a machinist, you can get your rivet set made with something more than just a dome.

A flower pattern, for example, so when you set your copper rivet the head comes out not as a dome, but a dome with petals. This sort of decorative rivet work is found in lots of medieval armour. The guys reproducing it today are getting into it now as well.

Something else is that the burrs themselves don't have to be simple washers. They too can be dressed up. One can file the edges (lots of time and effort), or make a stamp and punch shapes. There are also some small scale commercial sources for rosettes meant as decorative rivet add-ons. They've a hole in the center for the rivet, and you can either put them on the head side and pien normally on the shank, or you can put the rosette over the shank and then pien very carefully - don't want to mess up the rosette.

Anyway, there are lots of areas for spicing things up where rivets are concerned.

[JohnD]

Ed,

At first the guy told me they only had steel caps, but after checking some more he said he had some in brass. Come to think of it, I think that's why I went with 9/64 cause that what they had in brass. I was originally looking for 1/8. The measurements are the body diameter not the head dia.

[steveb]

Just saw this thread, I set quite a lot of copper rivets. Someone mentioned the river head domer.

Shameless plug, I am in not way afilliated, etc. Bob Douglas makes a three piece set for each of the three common sizes. One sets the burr, one peens the shank after it is cut to length, and the third domes the head. There are a few things I would not do without, and my wife says the setters are one of 'em. My wife will tell other makers or look at something in a shop and comment that they should get a set from Bob. Some guys have said that the domer on Bob's will sometimes overlap a #9 head (I think it is sold as an 8/9?). I haven't had that problem with any of my #9s from a few different sources. The shanks on Bob's setter/peener/domer have one, two, and three grooves, so you can tell which order to pick them up if they are all laying together on the bench. You can order them from Bob, or Vandy sells them at Sheridan Leather Outfitters.

One thing I would differ on from the tutorial. If someone used my hoofnippers to cut rivets, I would be a bit upset. I used to use endcut nippers with longer handles. I started using compound action end nippers last year after I dislocated the thumb. Quite the deal, and now just bought a really cool old pair in an antique emporium ($5, it pays to look in those barrels) that are neater looking, bigger, and even easier.

I have three sets of the douglas burr/stake setters - 9, 12 and 14 - they rock - work great - feel great - and I would never use a steel hammer on any decent tool - use a poly dead blow hammer (i just got a great one from Sears today) and a dedicated set of nippers to cut the stake...momey well spent if you sue lots of burr and stake rivets..

steveb

[esantoro]

steve,

I've been looking at the dead blow hammers at Sears online. I'm looking to get a two pound hammer. Which one did you get? I noticed Sears has several.

thanks,

Ed

[steveb]

steve,

I've been looking at the dead blow hammers at Sears online. I'm looking to get a two pound hammer. Which one did you get? I noticed Sears has several.

thanks,

Ed

dont know - it was red, small and had a funny molded handle. ive been using that same old beat to crap

garland mallet for years and have bneen waiting till i saw a modern one that was as good

in the hand as my old beater - this seems to work well so far..cleaner strike an more mass