Stitching spacing

[LionCrownLeather]

When I stitch my card holder I marked the with a line using a wing divider, then I punched holes using 5mm pricking Iron. I started from the top right to the lower corner and then top left to lower left corner. I did the bottom last and realized that the spacing will be inconsistent... How do you usually do here? I tried to add some spacing between two holes to fix this but I am not happy with the result. Do you mark with your chisel before punching? Corners have one stitch at an angle and it has to be in that place for it to look good. 

[Tugadude]

I see you are using a round chisel.  That's OK, but not preferred.  Most have success with the diamond-shaped or slit-shaped chisels.  There's a "sticky" note on the options in the Sewing Leather part of the forum.  Check it out.

In addition to spacing, make certain to keep the chisel square to the reference line.  I see you have wobbled a bit.  I wonder if that is because of the size of the round punches deforming the leather as they go through?

How many round punches are on  the tool you are using?  That makes a difference in how to proceed.

What I generally do is begin in a corner and work from there.  That might not work as well with your iron.  If there are going to be irregularities in the stitch spacing I always try to make sure it happens in an inconspicuous location on the project.  Sometimes that isn't possible.  You should, however, not have two "bad" spacings in the stitching line along the bottom, only one.

Try lightly pressing the chisel into the leather to gauge where the holes will end up and then you can make adjustments.  Call it a "dry run".  If it isn't working out to your satisfaction, at least you haven't created any holes.

 

 

 

[mike02130]

I find the smaller the spacing, the easier and less noticeable it is to cheat the spacing.  On some work I start in the middle, that way my holes are evenly aligned.   

[Spyros]

4 hours ago, LionCrownLeather said:

When I stitch my card holder I marked the with a line using a wing divider, then I punched holes using 5mm pricking Iron. I started from the top right to the lower corner and then top left to lower left corner. I did the bottom last and realized that the spacing will be inconsistent... How do you usually do here? I tried to add some spacing between two holes to fix this but I am not happy with the result. Do you mark with your chisel before punching? Corners have one stitch at an angle and it has to be in that place for it to look good. 

Don't worry about it, once you thread is through it will take the most anal of anal people to notice it.  

[LionCrownLeather]

On 7/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, Tugadude said:

I see you are using a round chisel.  That's OK, but not preferred.  Most have success with the diamond-shaped or slit-shaped chisels.  There's a "sticky" note on the options in the Sewing Leather part of the forum.  Check it out.

In addition to spacing, make certain to keep the chisel square to the reference line.  I see you have wobbled a bit.  I wonder if that is because of the size of the round punches deforming the leather as they go through?

How many round punches are on  the tool you are using?  That makes a difference in how to proceed.

What I generally do is begin in a corner and work from there.  That might not work as well with your iron.  If there are going to be irregularities in the stitch spacing I always try to make sure it happens in an inconspicuous location on the project.  Sometimes that isn't possible.  You should, however, not have two "bad" spacings in the stitching line along the bottom, only one.

Try lightly pressing the chisel into the leather to gauge where the holes will end up and then you can make adjustments.  Call it a "dry run".  If it isn't working out to your satisfaction, at least you haven't created any holes.

 

 

 

I use the round chisel because I always fail with the diamond chisel. The diamond chisel is beautiful on the front but the back even when I go through all the way it always ends up inconsistent. The round head is a safer choice for me but ofcourse the diamond chisel if used correctly gives beautiful stitching lines. I have different sizes for the punch tool I am using, 6 tooth, 4 tooth and 2 tooth. I usually go with the 6 tooth and then with the 2 tooth at the corners. 

[toxo]

1 hour ago, LionCrownLeather said:

I use the round chisel because I always fail with the diamond chisel. The diamond chisel is beautiful on the front but the back even when I go through all the way it always ends up inconsistent. The round head is a safer choice for me but ofcourse the diamond chisel if used correctly gives beautiful stitching lines. I have different sizes for the punch tool I am using, 6 tooth, 4 tooth and 2 tooth. I usually go with the 6 tooth and then with the 2 tooth at the corners. 

Nothing wrong with using a round punch. Yours look  little large for a card holder. As for spacing, start at each corner and work out the difference in the center where it won't be noticed so much. If using a multi prong make sure you have at least one (two is better) prong in the last hole you punched. can't go wrong that way. Make your pieces oversize an cut to size after stitching. Will give a nice sharp edge for finishing.

[LionCrownLeather]

6 hours ago, toxo said:

Nothing wrong with using a round punch. Yours look  little large for a card holder. As for spacing, start at each corner and work out the difference in the center where it won't be noticed so much. If using a multi prong make sure you have at least one (two is better) prong in the last hole you punched. can't go wrong that way. Make your pieces oversize an cut to size after stitching. Will give a nice sharp edge for finishing.

I bought mine on Internet from China. I didnt know the diameter of the pronges but I can tell you this: the diamond chisels I got from China I always fail with, they dont cut through very well and the handle is not thick so hammering it causes the chisel to go through at an angle. If you are using round head chisels which ones do you use and if you by any chance use diamond chisels which one do you recommend? 

[Spyros]

The reason why all those online bag patters are using gigantic round holes with huge spacing is just practicality.  

Bigger spaces = faster stitching and less punching.  They also make it easier to count holes when you're designing patterns.

Round holes = you avoid the risk of pointy edges facing opposite directions when you pre punch and then put the two layers together.   Which happens a lot.

Big holes = easier to put your needles through, especially in awkard situations like in bag bottoms when one of your hands is inside the bag and you can't see it.   

 

On the other hand (IMO) diamond and diagonal holes with shorter spacing make for a prettier stitching and visually it screams hand-made.   I mean if you're gonna have a straight line round hole stitch I personally can't tell it apart from sewing machine stitch.  Which is absolutely fine don't get me wrong, but when you put in all this effort to stitch by hand, don't you want it to show?

Edited July 17, 2020 by Spyros

[toxo]

3 hours ago, LionCrownLeather said:

I bought mine on Internet from China. I didnt know the diameter of the pronges but I can tell you this: the diamond chisels I got from China I always fail with, they dont cut through very well and the handle is not thick so hammering it causes the chisel to go through at an angle. If you are using round head chisels which ones do you use and if you by any chance use diamond chisels which one do you recommend? 

First of all it doesn't matter what tool you use to cut leather but it must be proper sharp. very rarely will you buy anything from China and not have to sharpen it. That includes the slanted prongs on your stitching chisels (That's what they're called. the ones that make round holes are called punches) or the hole punches. you'll find that you'll be amazed at the difference once you've sharpened and stropped your tools. When using your stitching tool you must hold it upright and concentrate on holding it the same way for EVERY hole. Of course that still won'tget you a good job if the layers of leather are moving around so you either glue them or clip them or use basting tape (double sided tape)to hold the layers together whist making your holes.

Spyros is making a case for his own opinion and there's nothing wrong with that but I had to smile when he listed all the good bits about hole punches and then said "But you don't wanna do that do you". Personally,  I don't care what you use. as long as it's neat and tidy and does the job, well done. For me, give me a hole punch or a sewing machine rather than struggle with trying to get two needle and an awl through a slit that wants to close up on you as soon as your backs turned.

Your holes look to be about 1.5mm which IMO is too big for a card holder. the hole and the thread should fit the size of the project. Look at this stitching that was posted by a new member (Men) on Saturday. That's neat enough for me.

 

[Frodo]

lion crown

First i scribe a line

then i use a 1mm edge beveler to cut my scribed line deeper [see image] 

next,  I lay the holes out using a pen [see image]

at this time, you can see what hole needs to move. 

you can move a hole by punching on either side of the mark you made with the pen 

The reason I use the edge beveler, it makes a nice grove for my thread to sit in..

I use a wide thread to make holsters.  And i like the statement the wide thread makes

Wide thread image

 

[johnv474]

18 hours ago, LionCrownLeather said:

I bought mine on Internet from China. I didnt know the diameter of the pronges but I can tell you this: the diamond chisels I got from China I always fail with, they dont cut through very well and the handle is not thick so hammering it causes the chisel to go through at an angle. If you are using round head chisels which ones do you use and if you by any chance use diamond chisels which one do you recommend? 

You can get good results with any of them. 

Many people have strong opinions about what is best or right, but they are mostly opinions.  Some looks are liked by more people, and some approaches can look more finished or consistent to a customer.  But some crooked stitches or uneven stitch spacing does not really affect anything except looks and resale value.  This is a cardholder, not a parachute (an example where certain details do matter).

In order for your holes to turn out right, there are some things you can do.  Rotate your project so you are looking along the line of stitching.  Take your punch and hold it straight up and down.  Pick up your mallet.  BEFORE YOU HIT THE CHISEL, rest the head of the mallet on the top of the chisel.  THEN, raise or lower the mallet's handle until it is going straight out, horizontal.  NOW, raise and lower your hand/arm to hit the chisel, and when you swing down try to retrace your steps so the mallet goes right back to where it was.  

If your mallet hits with the handle higher or lower than horizontal, or if your chisel is not straight up and down, then the chisel will exit higher or lower than you want it.  The thicker the leather, the more precisely you must hold the chisel.

When it comes to stitch spacing, ideally this would be figured out ahead of time on a pattern/template.  If you work straight onto the leather, as many of us do, we run the risk of more errors and also run the risk of having to 'bluff' a bit more with our stitch spacing.

[Hardrada]

20 hours ago, LionCrownLeather said:

if you by any chance use diamond chisels which one do you recommend?

Seiwa: the convergence of economy and quality: https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-6x4mm/a-19162

[chuck123wapati]

it's all about math 8 spi for example one stitch = 1/8th inch so your stitching has to be measured in 1/8th inches. measure your stitch line then do the math if it doesn't come out correct then use a different spi that fits or lengthen or shorten your line. On this wallet it would be of little consequence to make it a few mm bigger or smaller to make your holes, chisels or punches come out even. That's what mock ups are about and patterns are for, getting the small stuff correct so it all goes together easily and quickly every time, doesn't matter what is making the holes.

I also noticed on your wallet your holes on the sides are punched with your line  on the sides of the holes on the bottom the line is in the center of the holes that little bit of difference will throw you off by half a stitch as will the rounded corner your corner holes are out of line so the stitch length will be affected

Edited July 17, 2020 by chuck123wapati

[Spyros]

On 7/17/2020 at 12:39 PM, toxo said:

Spyros is making a case for his own opinion and there's nothing wrong with that but I had to smile when he listed all the good bits about hole punches and then said "But you don't wanna do that do you".

I know, this probably sounded a bit confusing, sorry

I'm not hand stitching because I can't afford a sewing machine, I can, I just think there is additional value in hand stitching.  And part of that value is the look, so if I'm going through the trouble of doing it I want the full return on my investment, which includes the visual element.  I just think round chisels kind of hide it.

Having said that, I'm still very new to all this and I'm still changing opinions.

[LionCrownLeather]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:56 PM, johnv474 said:

You can get good results with any of them. 

Many people have strong opinions about what is best or right, but they are mostly opinions.  Some looks are liked by more people, and some approaches can look more finished or consistent to a customer.  But some crooked stitches or uneven stitch spacing does not really affect anything except looks and resale value.  This is a cardholder, not a parachute (an example where certain details do matter).

In order for your holes to turn out right, there are some things you can do.  Rotate your project so you are looking along the line of stitching.  Take your punch and hold it straight up and down.  Pick up your mallet.  BEFORE YOU HIT THE CHISEL, rest the head of the mallet on the top of the chisel.  THEN, raise or lower the mallet's handle until it is going straight out, horizontal.  NOW, raise and lower your hand/arm to hit the chisel, and when you swing down try to retrace your steps so the mallet goes right back to where it was.  

If your mallet hits with the handle higher or lower than horizontal, or if your chisel is not straight up and down, then the chisel will exit higher or lower than you want it.  The thicker the leather, the more precisely you must hold the chisel.

When it comes to stitch spacing, ideally this would be figured out ahead of time on a pattern/template.  If you work straight onto the leather, as many of us do, we run the risk of more errors and also run the risk of having to 'bluff' a bit more with our stitch spacing.

When you reach a corner with the diamond chisel how do you place the chisel? for example I have a card holder I am doing right now. The holes begin from straight up to down and when I am going from the top line to the bottom I'm not sure how to hold the chisel here? see attached image

[fredk]

I use a single-tooth chisel to make one hole on the apex of the corner. I then work from the corners to the centre of the side or bottom, making a row of holes alternately, so that the last few holes are at about the centre of the side

At the moment I cannot see your picture. It might have somat to do with the present site problems

[LionCrownLeather]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

I use a single-tooth chisel to make one hole on the apex of the corner. I then work from the corners to the centre of the side or bottom, making a row of holes alternately, so that the last few holes are at about the centre of the side

At the moment I cannot see your picture. It might have somat to do with the present site problems

Hi,

 

Maybe there is a problem with the website. My question is if you have a corner and the corner radius is not so much and you intend to stitch with 4 mm spacing. When the template is finished you notice that on the bottom left and right corners of the card holder you don't have a stitching hole, you have one on the line going straight up and a hole on the bottom going horizontally, meaning there is no hole to connect the vertical and horizontal stitching line. After punching the holes from top to bottom corner do you rotate your project 90 degrees and then punch holes on the bottom from top to down? I feel like the connection of stitching is important here, I don't want the stitching to look unnatural between side and bottom of my card holder, maybe it is recommended to use a stitching hole at the corner between the two lines to make it look more consistent? 

Edited July 21, 2020 by LionCrownLeather

[toxo]

Fred has it right. Work from each corner alternatively and work out any anomalies in the center There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't use a small hole in the corner if it suits your project.In fact I've seen lots of projects where a diamond slant look off in the corner.I suppose the radius of the corner comes into it as well. With spacing, on quite a lot of projects you can actually alter the size slightly to suit whatever chisel/punch you want to use. You don't think Nigel Armitages or Ian Atkinsons spacing works out perfectly every time is a coincidence do you?

The thing I haven't seen mentioned re:  slits versus holes is curves. It's one thing to have this debate about flat surfaces but is there a difference when working with 3D curves? I've only used holes when doing Dieselpunk.Ro patterns which have all sorts of curves sometimes and it's fascinating to watch the thread pulling those curves together. I guess it's designer preference whether they use circles/dots/crosses but on tight radii the comments above will come into the "look".

[johnv474]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:02 AM, LionCrownLeather said:

Hi,

 

Maybe there is a problem with the website. My question is if you have a corner and the corner radius is not so much and you intend to stitch with 4 mm spacing. When the template is finished you notice that on the bottom left and right corners of the card holder you don't have a stitching hole, you have one on the line going straight up and a hole on the bottom going horizontally, meaning there is no hole to connect the vertical and horizontal stitching line. After punching the holes from top to bottom corner do you rotate your project 90 degrees and then punch holes on the bottom from top to down? I feel like the connection of stitching is important here, I don't want the stitching to look unnatural between side and bottom of my card holder, maybe it is recommended to use a stitching hole at the corner between the two lines to make it look more consistent? 

Nigel Armitage's great trick on Youtube is to use a scratch awl and mallet to make one round hole right where the two lines cross.  You sew it the same but the result is tidier.

When i don't do that, I straddle the lines evenly, so each of the two prongs are the same distance from the corner, leaving one stitch right about 45 degrees betweem the two lines.  I don't have a reason why I pick one approach over another on a specific project.

Edited July 24, 2020 by johnv474

[LionCrownLeather]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:58 PM, johnv474 said:

Nigel Armitage's great trick on Youtube is to use a scratch awl and mallet to make one round hole right where the two lines cross.  You sew it the same but the result is tidier.

When i don't do that, I straddle the lines evenly, so each of the two prongs are the same distance from the corner, leaving one stitch right about 45 degrees betweem the two lines.  I don't have a reason why I pick one approach over another on a specific project.

Thank you, I will try this.