Need sewing machine advice

[skipsmith]

I make small leather goods such as wallets and journals...have desire to try some belts.  Bags would be in distant future maybe...

I hand stitch using tiger thread .8mm for my leather goods. Kind of like the heaver thread look.

If I add up the oz for a bifold wallet, it could be a thick as 9 to 14 oz of veg tan leather.

Time for a sewing machine.

Looking at table tops: Consew 206RB-5, Juki1541S

Cylinder Arm: Cowboy 3200, CB227R

Like most, I can't decide if I really want a flat table machine or a cylinder arm and get the table add on option.

One thing that I am 100% is I don't want the machine on a pedestal where I have to sit on a bar stool height chair or stand to operate like I see a lot of the cobra models. I think I will be doing lots of sewing and want to sit down and be comfortable doing so.

I have seen some U shaped tables for some of the cylinders that look like a better option for sitting down and sewing.

For thread size, I am thinking the thread size I would use would be 92 or 138.  

Is the CB3200 too large for what I do?

Any other cylinders that would be in the price range of these other machines?

Any thoughts on these table top machines for what I do.

[Cascabel]

I have the Cowboy 4500, and the pedestal can be lowered quite a bit.  I use a standard type office swivel chair with mine to work comfortably.    I hate trying to work standing up !!

Edited July 17, 2020 by Cascabel
Forgot something

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, skipsmith said:

For thread size, I am thinking the thread size I would use would be 92 or 138.  

Is the CB3200 too large for what I do?

No, it is not too much machine for #138 thread with a #23. That is where it shines. Using #92 thread calls for a much thinner #19 needle which is not usually available in leather point. If you need to sew thinner interiors you will be pushing the lower limits of the feed system and may have to dumb down the machine for better results.

One advantage of the cb3200 over the other machines you mentioned is that it can properly tension up the #346 bonded thread, which they cannot. A lot of folks here are regularly using #207 and #277 thread in their big stitchers. Of course, you must meet the minimum thickness requirements to hide the knots between the layers. Since your stack of leather will be 9 to 14 ounces, #207 thread will definitely work. At 1/4 inch (16 oz) and above you can start using #277 thread, or a combination of #277 on top and #207 in the bobbin.

If seam strength is important use the same size thread on both sides. Otherwise, a smaller bobbin thread lies flatter against the bottom layer and is easier to pull up inside the leather.

You can sit down to sew with the cb3200. Ask the seller to setup the table height to your preference. All you'll have to do is mount the head and install the v-belts and foot lift chain.

If you don't intend to use thread over size 138, or sew over 5/16" on a regular ongoing basis, the smaller machines will do fine. You can add a table attachment to most cylinder arm machines, but cannot convert a flatbed into a cylinder arm. It all depends on how much of your work has raised or lowered shapes and how close they are to the stitch line. With a flatbed machine you would have to sew bag gussets or circular items along the inside leaving a not so perfect stitch appearance on the outside. On a cylinder arm you just sew on the outside and let the rest hang down on the left.

[skipsmith]

Wizcraft thanks so much for the detailed info...

It has made me think through this in other ways.

The wallets that I sew have the interiors pieces that can be 4 to 6 oz...that have to be sewed before getting to the end process of sewing 14 oz of leather. From your response, its not just max thickness of leather, but also consider how thin the machine has to sew as well.

Is the CB3200 still a machine I should be looking at for 138 thread on 4 oz leather interiors? 

Is there another cylinder that would be better for small goods like wallets, journals, belts...and allow me to try some bags in the future.

Even with wallets, I can sort of see the advantage of a cylinder with sewing a bifold.  When I hand stitch a bifold, I hang the wallet off the table to edge groove and punch holes when working close to the spine.

I am told you can still machine sew Bifolds with a flat table machine...but a cylinder seems like it would be easier.

[Wizcrafts]

28 minutes ago, skipsmith said:

Is the CB3200 still a machine I should be looking at for 138 thread on 4 oz leather interiors? 

Probably NOT. You cannot hide the lockstitch knots inside 4 ounces, or 1/16 inch. That requires about 6 or 7 ounces minimum. You would have to use half the thread size in only 4 ounces; #69.

[skipsmith]

Was almost ready to pull the trigger on Juki1541S and now wanting to consider a Cobra.

The Cobra 17 is a 69 to 138 thread. The Cobra 18 and 20 says a 69 to 207. According to the internet.

The Juki1541S seems more comparable to the Cobra 17 in terms of thread capability. Is that a fair assumption? The Cobra 17 is definitely less expensive.

I am sewing wallets, journal covers, and maybe some belts... 

Can anyone share some thoughts on the Juki versus the Cobra 17, 18, and 20.

Thanks

 

[RockyAussie]

I would suggest for the type of work you are doing that you consider something along the line of a Cobra class 26.

[skipsmith]

The Cobra 26 has been another one that I have been interested in, but it looks like you have to stand up or have a high stool to operate the machine. I would prefer to sit down at a table to sew.  I have not seen the cobra 26 offered in one of those U shaped tables.

Am I correct about the height of the machine?

 

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, skipsmith said:

The Cobra 26 has been another one that I have been interested in, but it looks like you have to stand up or have a high stool to operate the machine. I would prefer to sit down at a table to sew.  I have not seen the cobra 26 offered in one of those U shaped tables.

Am I correct about the height of the machine?

 

A pedestal stand can be lowered to about the same height as a sit down table. The pedestal has two square pieces that slide and have holes for big bolts to lock the position down.

I have sent a question about the ability of the stand to drop down to sitting height to Leather Machine Company. I also asked if they will custom drill and position a pedestal to a customer's desired height. Lowering the table also requires the foot lift chain and motor control rods to be shortened.

[RockyAussie]

10 hours ago, skipsmith said:

The Cobra 26 has been another one that I have been interested in, but it looks like you have to stand up or have a high stool to operate the machine. I would prefer to sit down at a table to sew.  I have not seen the cobra 26 offered in one of those U shaped tables.

Am I correct about the height of the machine?

 

Many a time a U shaped table will get in the way on larger jobs and it is easy to set up a table or tray underneath for when you want one there. I have to say respectfully that if you would have trouble working out how to get the machine to the height you want, you would be best to forget about doing leather work. Every day come new challenges to overcome and that is just something you gotta learn to enjoy. Getting the right machine that can do the job you want it to do IS the point here.

[skipsmith]

My main objective is getting the right machine. I would however like it to be setup to be comfortable working on projects and not having to stand at a machine to sew projects. Every video I can find of the Cobra 26 shows someone standing and sewing.

I am having issues keeping up with inventory of our products with hand stitching and anticipate needing a lot of time behind the sewing machine to keep our inventory up.

The Cobra 26 looks very appealing as it looks to sew small leather goods which is what I do, plus perhaps bags and other items a little easier down the road with the cylinder.

If I go the with the Cobra 26, I would definitely get the table adaptor and I am just trying to figure out can you lower the machine so it can be used sitting at a desk chair to use the machine.

[dikman]

You seem fixated on this height thing. As Wiz explained, it's designed to be height adjustable. Have a look at this site and zoom in on the two bolts on the vertical column below the table, you loosen these to slide the table up and down. https://www.springfieldleather.com/Cobra-Class-26.

They also have a 1/2 hour video on youtube showing the complete assembly of the machine.

If it was meant to be used standing only that would severely limit their sales.

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, skipsmith said:

I am just trying to figure out can you lower the machine so it can be used sitting at a desk chair to use the machine.

No problems..... but you need to take the caster wheels off. You keep sliding around when you sew otherwise and they do get the thread tangled around them and then only slide around badly and getting the thread out of them is a time wasting bitch.