What next?

[Affaltar]

Hi everyone

 

I got my first serious veg tan project almost done but I don't know how to finish it.

I'll use gum tragacanth on the alone edges, then stitch it and finish other edges. At what point should I put something on it to protect it and make it usable? What should I use?

I have carnauba cream, neatsfoot oil and some Italian leather cream and oil. What else should I get, not just for this but in general?

I can get some shoe impregnation easily, I don't know if that is useful for veg tan like this or just for finished

[fredk]

Get bees wax. The best is from a local to you bee keeper.

Melt some bees wax with some carnauba wac and add in neetsfoot oil to make a paste. You can use this mix to feed your leather and as a finish polish.

[Affaltar]

 

19 minutes ago, fredk said:

Get bees wax. The best is from a local to you bee keeper.

Melt some bees wax with some carnauba wac and add in neetsfoot oil to make a paste. You can use this mix to feed your leather and as a finish polish.

Thank you! Is this comparable/preferred to commercial options or just a solution to use in a pinch? Do you have a more precise recipe?

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Affaltar said:

Thank you! Is this comparable/preferred to commercial options or just a solution to use in a pinch?

As good as a commercial option might be, they can be expensive for a small tin and they have other additives which I do not want. I have two grades of beeswax/carnauba/nfo mix which I use all the time. A soft grade, like soft butter for applying after dyeing which feeds nfo into the leather to replace oils lost and a hard grade, which I use for edge burnishing and end finish polishing. After dyeing the leather should be given a feed of nfo. Getting the amount just right is a problem, too much can ruin a project. But with my soft mix I can get just about the correct amount of nfo into the leather.

1 hour ago, Affaltar said:

 Do you have a more precise recipe?

A precise recipe? ha, ha,  I make it by - umm, 'I think that will do' or 'that is about right'

Metal bowl. Heat some beeswax in the bowl until the wax is totally melted, add about a spoon full or two of white carnauba wax flakes, then add nfo. Stir well. Let the mix cool and see how soft or hard it is. Too soft - remelt and add more beeswax. Too Hard - remelt and add more nfo.

If you use about 100g of besswax add about 5 or 10ml (a teaspoon or two) of Carnauba wax flakes, use white flakes and not the brown. Then just add nfo until you get the mix as you want it. This 100g/10ml/? mix will last you a lot of projects.

[Affaltar]

I have white carnauba cream from tandy eco-flo, can I use that or should I get flakes? I also have white leather wax from leather-eshop, it's called just leather wax xD

That recipe is much more precise, I get some starting point, just how much oil do you put approximately? Should I go with 5ml and up little by little or around same as wax and do bigger jumps?

I'll find some wax today and try it if my carnauba is ok

[fredk]

10 minutes ago, Affaltar said:

I have white carnauba cream from tandy eco-flo, can I use that or should I get flakes?

I do not know the Tandy Carnauba cream. I have some made by Le Prevo. I do not know what else is in it The cream might work alright. I started making my mix before I ever bought the carnauba cream.

10 minutes ago, Affaltar said:

 I also have white leather wax from leather-eshop, it's called just leather wax

Without knowing what else is in it  I  would not use it.

10 minutes ago, Affaltar said:

That recipe is much more precise, I get some starting point, just how much oil do you put approximately? Should I go with 5ml and up little by little or around same as wax and do bigger jumps?

oh, more that that, start with about 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of wax, by volume

edit. you can probably get yellow bees wax in a local hardware store. If you can find some local bee keepers, and I know there are a great many in Croatia, ask them for the white 'cappings' wax. You'll pay a little more for it but its the purest, cleanest wax out of a hive.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by fredk

[chrisash]

Me i just use Effax Balm it works well into the leather, seems to waterproof ok and when applied on plain veg tan it hardly darkens the leather at all, far less than nfo

[Affaltar]

Thanks guys very much, I'll try it out and keep you posted

[Affaltar]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

I do not know the Tandy Carnauba cream. I have some made by Le Prevo. I do not know what else is in it The cream might work alright. I started making my mix before I ever bought the carnauba cream.

Without knowing what else is in it  I  would not use it.

oh, more that that, start with about 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of wax, by volume

edit. you can probably get yellow bees wax in a local hardware store. If you can find some local bee keepers, and I know there are a great many in Croatia, ask them for the white 'cappings' wax. You'll pay a little more for it but its the purest, cleanest wax out of a hive.

 

I made the mix as you said, I saw there are many bee keepers locally so I asked my colleague can he recommend one and he told me the guy standing next to him is a beekeeper :D 
He didn't have the fancy pure one on hand, but I got a nice chunk of regular one.

I asked the italian supplier and I was told it's just 100% wax, synthetic, specially for veg tanned leather.

When I rubbed it in some of the dye came off, I like it, but the end user doesn't, so what to do now to have it completely black again? 
 

[Alaisiagae]

@fredk Where do you get white carnuba wax flakes? I've been searching google and amazon all day, and all I can find are the yellow flakes.

[ScottWolf]

37 minutes ago, Alaisiagae said:

@fredk Where do you get white carnuba wax flakes? I've been searching google and amazon all day, and all I can find are the yellow flakes.

Organic T1 grade carnauba wax is a pale yellow. The color is immaterial to its performance. I use this exact product in a leather conditioner I make. I add small amounts of it to the beeswax and other ingredients in the conditioner in order to make it hard.  

[ScottWolf]

41 minutes ago, Alaisiagae said:

@fredk Where do you get white carnuba wax flakes? I've been searching google and amazon all day, and all I can find are the yellow flakes.

Organic T1 grade carnauba wax is a pale yellow. The color is immaterial to its performance. I use this exact product in a leather conditioner I make. I add small amounts of it to the beeswax and other ingredients in the conditioner in order to make it hard.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Carnauba-Wax-Flakes-Organic-Leather/dp/B07CLCGJPM/ref=pd_ybh_a_137?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AM0XMZ9P52DSPWTSV65B

Edited August 12, 2020 by ScottWolf

[Alaisiagae]

Thanks, @ScottWolf. What are your thoughts on white beeswax vs. yellow beeswax? Will the yellow color tint the leather, or not really?

[ScottWolf]

1 minute ago, Alaisiagae said:

Thanks, @ScottWolf. What are your thoughts on white beeswax vs. yellow beeswax? Will the yellow color tint the leather, or not really?

NO, not in my experience. The end product may look yellowish, but that color isn't transferred to the leather.

[battlemunky]

10 minutes ago, Alaisiagae said:

Thanks, @ScottWolf. What are your thoughts on white beeswax vs. yellow beeswax? Will the yellow color tint the leather, or not really?

I know I'm not @ScottWolf but I've used both and don't notice a difference on the leather. It all darkens up the same in my experience.

4 hours ago, Affaltar said:

I made the mix as you said, I saw there are many bee keepers locally so I asked my colleague can he recommend one and he told me the guy standing next to him is a beekeeper :D 
He didn't have the fancy pure one on hand, but I got a nice chunk of regular one.

I asked the italian supplier and I was told it's just 100% wax, synthetic, specially for veg tanned leather.

When I rubbed it in some of the dye came off, I like it, but the end user doesn't, so what to do now to have it completely black again? 
 

That's a little weird to be losing that much dye...what kind are you using? You may be a bit hosed depending on how well the wax took to the leather, it'll keep almost anything from penetrating the leather at this point.

Edited August 12, 2020 by battlemunky
Had more questions!

[johnv474]

Of what OP had on hand I would use the neatsfoot oil and then the carnauba cream.  Both are excellent.

For the dye that came off, you may have some trouble applying more dye but you can try it.  Or, you can use Fiebings Leather Balm with Atom Wax in Black.  (It is available in black and neutral).  Use it very sparingly and let it dry for 30 minutes, then buff.  Then repeat.

Or, you can buy cream polish (usually sold for shoes).  Tarrago shoe cream is good, Kelly Shoe Cream is very good, Saphir shoe cream is excellent.  Buy some black and apply a lighrt coat, let it dry, then buff to a sheen.  Then, repeat.  If desired you can follow that up with shoe polish--too very light coats.  Let the polish dry for 20 minutes to an hour, then buff with a soft cloth or horsehair brush.  I like Lincoln brand shoe polish, then Saphir, then Kelly shoe polish, then Kiwi.  Some people swear by Kiwi.

After a good buffing, I wojld sral with two light coats of diluted Resolene.  It'll be gooooood and black by then.

Gum Trag will keep more dye from soaking into edge (slow it down, I should say), but you should still be able to get a good, deep black if you follow the above steps.

[Affaltar]

I tried to use my dye on one of the pieces and it just sits on top

Would black shoe polish dry enough not to stain the user later?

[ScottWolf]

8 minutes ago, Affaltar said:

I tried to use my dye on one of the pieces and it just sits on top

Would black shoe polish dry enough not to stain the user later?

 I can tell you from experience, that black shoe polish isn't what you want to use if its pigmentation you are trying to add. You can use black shoe CREAM (not polish) as mentioned above for minor pigmentation additions. Using shoe polish to try and darken that wallet will leave you with a wallet that bleeds black stains on everything it touches. There is actually a recent thread where the person used black shoe polish on a purse to try and even the color out and is having this very issue. 

if you attempt to re0dye it, you will need to use a soap cleaner on it and scrub it to remove any product that would prevent the dye from penetrating. Otherwise it will just continue to pool and sit on top as you've already experienced. 

 

[Affaltar]

I washed it with soap and then redyed it, and I like the colour now

Now the problem is that it's too stiff xD Is there anything I can do about that?

 

[Alaisiagae]

Maybe try a little neatsfoot oil? Is it 100% pure neatsfoot oil, or neatsfoot oil compound?

[Affaltar]

it says 100% pure on the bottle. What does "a little" mean?

7 minutes ago, Alaisiagae said:

Maybe try a little neatsfoot oil? Is it 100% pure neatsfoot oil, or neatsfoot oil compound?

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Affaltar

[Alaisiagae]

I'm not sure, because I only just bought some neatsfoot. When I applied it, I dipped a 1x1 inch corner of paper towel and then put that on the leather. I might be doing it wrong, but I'm sure there is at least 1 person here on the forums that knows the right way to apply the oil.  

[johnv474]

You want to apply a very thin coat of neatsfoot and then give it lots of time to spread throughout the leather (like overnight).  If, the next day, it isn't flexible enough, apply a second very thin coat.  Don't dip it or douse it.

Over-oiling your leather will make it soggy, limp, and weak.  It cannot easily be undone, so take your time.

[fredk]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:46 PM, Alaisiagae said:

. . .What are your thoughts on white beeswax vs. yellow beeswax? Will the yellow color tint the leather, or not really?

Its not the colour per se. Its the purity. Basically yellow wax is old wax, it contains microscopic grains of pollen and dirt. White cap wax is season fresh and almost 100% clean. To see the dirt in yellow wax. melt two or three blocks in something you can remove the wax from when it hardens again. When it does harden, look carefully at the bottom of it. You'll see it covered in very small dark specks. Thats the dirt and pollen

On 8/14/2020 at 10:14 PM, Affaltar said:

Now the problem is that it's too stiff xD Is there anything I can do about that?

Rub in some beeswax / carnauba / nfo mix. That'll soften it up, seal it a bit and polish it up a bit