Dyed leather bleeding

[cdschoonie]

Hello, I just found and joined this forum, and I just beginning leather crafting for fun.

I am making a small project, I dyed it, applied mink oil, and it’s bleeding off significantly. If it helps, it’s veg tan, dyed black. I have read that Resoline will stop the bleeding. My questions are, first, will the Resoline stop it? Second, if it will stop it, do I use black Resoline, or neutral? And lastly, will it still work even though I already oiled it, or did I destroy it?

thank you for any help!
 

[Rhale]

Black is the worst color for bleeding and rub off, it’s so bad I don’t use it anymore!  I know of no way to totally eliminate it!  Good Luck!

[ScottWolf]

Did you rub/buff the item after dying it until no more dye came off on the rag? If you didn't do this step, this is likely your issue. As for resolene, use the neutral, as you'll be able to use it for other projects as well. Cut it 50/50 with water, avoid bubbles when applying it.   

[OLESKIVER]

52 minutes ago, cdschoonie said:

Hello, I just found and joined this forum, and I just beginning leather crafting for fun.

I am making a small project, I dyed it, applied mink oil, and it’s bleeding off significantly. If it helps, it’s veg tan, dyed black. I have read that Resoline will stop the bleeding. My questions are, first, will the Resoline stop it? Second, if it will stop it, do I use black Resoline, or neutral? And lastly, will it still work even though I already oiled it, or did I destroy it?

thank you for any help!
 

out of curiosity, why did you use mink oil instead of pure neatsfoot oil? and did you let your project fully dry before putting on finish, oh wait you skipped that part. well, that might be ok. I always put top coat or finish on before I oiled something, but I also only use pure neatsfoot oil. am not that up on some of the new "techniques" you might have to start over, if you didn't tool it you could just get you a piece of black leather and use that and not have to worry about, bleeding or rubbing off. When I started doing this the old adage was " If you screw it up you can always dye it black." of course that was for tooled leather.

[cdschoonie]

1 hour ago, OLESKIVER said:

out of curiosity, why did you use mink oil instead of pure neatsfoot oil? and did you let your project fully dry before putting on finish, oh wait you skipped that part. well, that might be ok. I always put top coat or finish on before I oiled something, but I also only use pure neatsfoot oil. am not that up on some of the new "techniques" you might have to start over, if you didn't tool it you could just get you a piece of black leather and use that and not have to worry about, bleeding or rubbing off. When I started doing this the old adage was " If you screw it up you can always dye it black." of course that was for tooled leather.

I went with Mink Oil because when researching, I found 70/30 advice (in the Mink Oil’s favor) between the two. Plus I used Neatsfoot Oil on a previous project and it bled as well. On that project, I didn’t research much, so never found the ‘finishing’ info. So, now I’m just assuming it’s in the finish that I need to figure out. 
Yes, I buffed it (well rubbed it hard) with cloth towels. It stopped coming off so I let it sit overnight the massaged it with oil, let that sit overnight, then went to threading it together. That’s when it started bleeding onto my hands. Other than making another (I have extra leather on hand), or ordering a new piece of black leather, it has no tooling, so it’s not a giant problem to go this route, and using Neatsfoot.

[cdschoonie]

I just ordered a piece of black leather... So, massage with Neatsfoot, let dry, and use Resoline? Or no Resoline?

[chiefjason]

Resolene it.  It won't hurt it at this point.  

What kind of dye?  I use Feibings Pro Oil Black and no problems with bleeding.  The USMC black was the worst for bleeding.  

[cdschoonie]

3 hours ago, chiefjason said:

Resolene it.  It won't hurt it at this point.  

What kind of dye?  I use Feibings Pro Oil Black and no problems with bleeding.  The USMC black was the worst for bleeding.  

Is just the Feibings alcohol-based dye.

[Rahere]

From the dye angle, we seem to be in the stone age. Normally, a mordant's applied first to give the dye something to get into, and very often something similar's used as a fixative. Traditionally, this was sodium carbonate (NOT bicardonate) otherwise known as washing soda and soda ash.

Dyes not fixing properly are indications a mordant is needed, but how this or other preparations interact with leather tannins is a moot point.

Has anyone experimented?

[chiefjason]

5 hours ago, cdschoonie said:

Is just the Feibings alcohol-based dye.

Try the Pro Oil version next go around.  I do a lot of black holster and no rub off on the finish.  Oxblood is the one that give me fits with rub off.  

[Alaisiagae]

As others have said, you will need to add a finish, such as Resolene, to lock-in the dye and mitigate rub-off and bleeding. I have only used water-based dyes, so I'm not sure about bleeding compared to alcohol based dyes. I also use Super Shene, but would use Resolene if I had any - and sometimes I use Neatlac. I always get a bit of rub-off when applying the finish, but after the finish dries, I don't get more rub-off. I usually use more than 1 coat of finish. There's a video from Weaver Leather ("The Leather Element") about black dyes, finishes, and rub off here on their blog page.

If you bought black leather, I think it would have already had a finish added to it, but I could be wrong. It probably wouldn't hurt to add some Resolene on it anyways. You don't necessarily have to use Neatsfoot unless the leather is dried out. Pre-dyed leathers usually have oils put in them from the tannery, though my experience is limited so I may be incorrect. 

[Handstitched]

G"day,

I had a lot of trouble in the early  days using oil based dyes on belts, so frustrating . No matter how many coats of sealer I apply, the dye still came through . I now use water based dyes , that have just little bit of  alcohol to aid drying. I also use regular  water based polyurethane sealers, and hi shine sealers, (some of which are chemical based)  .   But, no more rub-offs .  The belts still come out just as nice    

HS

[1961Mike]

Hi, I've made several black belts using Vinegaroon.  I made it with Cider Vinegar and steel wool.

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,11991.0.html

I put it in the dye bath for 10 minutes, wash it in a Baking soda bath, rinse and let it dry for a few days.  I let it dry until it quits smelling like vinegar.  So far so good.  I've finished it with Resolene, Tan Kote and Bag Kote.  I commonly finish the back side with Gum Tag, and cover that with Bag Kote.

Later

 

[cdschoonie]

Thank you all very much for the replies and good advice! As soon as I can get to the supply store, I get the stuff to finish it. I’ll let you all know what works.

[cdschoonie]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:46 PM, ScottWolf said:

Did you rub/buff the item after dying it until no more dye came off on the rag? If you didn't do this step, this is likely your issue. As for resolene, use the neutral, as you'll be able to use it for other projects as well. Cut it 50/50 with water, avoid bubbles when applying it.   

I’ll do it, so I can just cut it with water? No need for alcohol or anything? 
You say avoid bubbles? I’ve obviously never used it, what do I need to look for and how do I avoid the bubbles? If I get them, how are they eliminated?

Thank you!

[ScottWolf]

14 hours ago, cdschoonie said:

I’ll do it, so I can just cut it with water? No need for alcohol or anything? 
You say avoid bubbles? I’ve obviously never used it, what do I need to look for and how do I avoid the bubbles? If I get them, how are they eliminated?

Thank you!

Yes. No, nothing else. Don't shake the bottle before use, it will create bubbles. If while you are applying it, you get a bubble on your item, you need pop it, so it doesnt dry with a bubble on it. Its an acrylic sealer, same as mop and glow, like you use on the floor, so it creates a shell on top of the leather. You dont want dried in bubbles in your shell. Cutting it 50/50 will help reduce that as well as reduce the amount of shine. Apply 1-2 coats as needed

[cdschoonie]

2 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Yes. No, nothing else. Don't shake the bottle before use, it will create bubbles. If while you are applying it, you get a bubble on your item, you need pop it, so it doesnt dry with a bubble on it. Its an acrylic sealer, same as mop and glow, like you use on the floor, so it creates a shell on top of the leather. You dont want dried in bubbles in your shell. Cutting it 50/50 will help reduce that as well as reduce the amount of shine. Apply 1-2 coats as needed

Thank you! I’ll let you know how it works out.

[1961Mike]

Hi

I put Resolene on with a rag.  I'm finishing a Meander edged belt, so the divots in the Meander are fairly deep.  I put a lot of half and half Resolene on to get the holes filled and then wipe the rest "down stream".  I just rub until the White in the Resolene doesn't have any bubbles in it.  Does anyone spray on the Resolene or use a dauber?

Later

[cdschoonie]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:48 PM, OLESKIVER said:

out of curiosity, why did you use mink oil instead of pure neatsfoot oil? and did you let your project fully dry before putting on finish, oh wait you skipped that part. well, that might be ok. I always put top coat or finish on before I oiled something, but I also only use pure neatsfoot oil. am not that up on some of the new "techniques" you might have to start over, if you didn't tool it you could just get you a piece of black leather and use that and not have to worry about, bleeding or rubbing off. When I started doing this the old adage was " If you screw it up you can always dye it black." of course that was for tooled leather.

I found Neatsfoot at the local farm supply, one question, they have “100% pure Neatsfoot oil”, as well as “Prime Neatsfoot oil compound” (which I’ve never heard of). I’m assuming I need the 100% Neatsfoot Oil, and not the compound?

[OLESKIVER]

that would be correct. When I was starting out I had someone tell me or read it somewhere that the compound over time deteareates the leather. so personally, I haven't ever used it.  I will caution you on the use of the neatsfoot oil. use it sparingly. a littlke goes a long way and you can always add more but you can't take it out. I use it on all my tack and saddles. and my boots, since they are oiled, not polished. hope this helped

 

[cdschoonie]

16 minutes ago, OLESKIVER said:

that would be correct. When I was starting out I had someone tell me or read it somewhere that the compound over time deteareates the leather. so personally, I haven't ever used it.  I will caution you on the use of the neatsfoot oil. use it sparingly. a littlke goes a long way and you can always add more but you can't take it out. I use it on all my tack and saddles. and my boots, since they are oiled, not polished. hope this helped

 

Absolutely, helps a ton! Thank you very much.

[TomG]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:08 AM, Handstitched said:

G"day,

I had a lot of trouble in the early  days using oil based dyes on belts, so frustrating . No matter how many coats of sealer I apply, the dye still came through . I now use water based dyes , that have just little bit of  alcohol to aid drying. I also use regular  water based polyurethane sealers, and hi shine sealers, (some of which are chemical based)  .   But, no more rub-offs .  The belts still come out just as nice    

HS

What sealers do you use?

[cdschoonie]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:48 PM, OLESKIVER said:

out of curiosity, why did you use mink oil instead of pure neatsfoot oil? and did you let your project fully dry before putting on finish, oh wait you skipped that part. well, that might be ok. I always put top coat or finish on before I oiled something, but I also only use pure neatsfoot oil. am not that up on some of the new "techniques" you might have to start over, if you didn't tool it you could just get you a piece of black leather and use that and not have to worry about, bleeding or rubbing off. When I started doing this the old adage was " If you screw it up you can always dye it black." of course that was for tooled leather.

You mentioned you apply your finish after dyeing, but before you oil. I’m assuming after the Resolene is dry, the leather will still accept oil? 
Also, how long do I need to let the Resolene dry? A couple of days is what I’ve read other places, as well as watching videos, etc., does that sound about right?

[TheCyberwolfe]

The method I used on the belt I'm wearing now, after a year with no rub-off or bleeding. Method told to me by an ancient leatherworker at Oregon Leather Company when I was first starting out.

1. Oil it first. It will help the dye penetrate the leather deeper and give you a better color result. Use Neatsfoot oil, in thin coats until it looks even. Let this sit 24 hours in a Goldilocks environment (not too hot, not too cold, or dry, etc.) before you reach for the dye. If there are any dry spots after 24 hours, give it another coat and try again tomorrow.

2. Dye it using Fiebing's Pro Dye (no longer called Pro Oil, just Pro). This is a bit of a misnomer in that it is still an alcohol-based dye, it's the pigment that is oil-based now instead of powder based. This means you won't get the powdery residue like you get from the non-pro dyes like the USMC Black, and you won't wear your elbows out with buffing the project. Go over it with thin coats until you get the color you want (airbrush is a good applicator). If you're using black, no reason you can't dip-dye it for an absolutely dyed-through result. Again, let it dry for at least 24 hours before the next step.

3. Buff the project and check your color finish. If all looks good, go for the top coat. @ScottWolf is right with the Resolene mix ratio at 50/50 and keeping track of your bubbles. Again, an airbrush makes a good applicator, but daubers, rags, and sponges can still get good results if you're patient. Resolene is a good finish for general-use projects, but if you want something a bit tougher I can recommend Fiebing's Saddle-Lac, which comes in an aerosol can. 2 or 3 coats is good enough for rugged outdoor gear like saddles and tack, or biker gear. Be aware, however, that Saddle-Lac is a bit of a "creaky" finish - my cell phone holster makes noise when I adjust it on the belt or move around.

 

The part I always have the most trouble with is the patience.

[cdschoonie]

My project(s) are rifle butt stock bullet holders for 3 of my rifles. The reason I started this thread, is that I made one a year ago for another rifle. It turned out great for my first project attempt. The only issue I have is that it bleeds a little onto the bullets. The rest of it, surprisingly enough, does not bleed off. When I made it, I only watched 2 YouTube videos for guidance. I used Medium Brown dye, and coated it with Neatsfoot. Had I known about Resolene then, I’d probably never had an issue. So this round, I’m using all of your advice, so I’m feeling confident I won’t have any issue. 
Again, thank you all for the sound advice!