Pricking Irons

[Simmental]

Good evening everyone,

I'm new to leatherworking and I'm enjoying it, but having a few little issues!

A project requires me to stitch through three layers of 3/4oz leather. I'm using pricing irons to punch my holes, but the iorn is getting stuck and then I'm putting the leather out of shape when getting the tool out. 

Should I be using a tool with fewer prongs? Should I just be aiming to use the iron as a mark and then opening up with an awl? Or are my irons too shallow for the job? They are only cheap ones as I can't afford to invest too much right now (I'm a seasonal worker and there's not much work for me right now!)

Thanks in advance.

[Arturomex]

39 minutes ago, Simmental said:

Should I just be aiming to use the iron as a mark and then opening up with an awl?

 

Probably this.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about "pricking irons" and "stitching chisels." My take on it is that pricking irons are used to mark hole placement and then an awl is used to pierce the actual hole while stitching chisels go through the leather to create the holes. 

Either way, 9~12 oz of leather is going to be a "challenge" for even a the best "stitching chisel." I suspect that even if you manage to get the chisel all the way through, the hole on the top would be big enough that you could drive a semi truck through it.

If your alignment is really good you could put your top layer on top of your second layer and go through far enough to mark the second layer, then put the second layer on top of the third layer, go through far enough to mark the third layer and then punch through the third layer but it's an exercise fraught with problems and you're not going to be able to glue the assembly up properly.

I made a little wooden tool that is "U" shaped with a narrow slit in it. If I find my chisel doesn't want to leave the leather easily I put the wooden "U" on top of the leather with an arm on each side of the stitch line, hold the leather down with that and then take the chisel out. Stops a lot of the "leather getting pulled out of shape issues.

Regards,

Arturo

[DJole]

Welcome, Simmental!
1) Three layers is too many. You're probably going to have to do this in two or three passes. Here's one possible way to do it, which will take some time:  (1) make the holes on the top layer; (2) set the top layer on the next layer, and go over the holes again, MARKING them on the lower layer, (3) Remove top layer, and finish the holes on the 2nd layer. (4) Repeat, using TOP layer and bottom layer. All the holes should line up just fine now-- but you have to be very careful when lining the pieces up.  
2) Have you polished those irons? The cheaper ones will often need a lot of polishing before they stop sticking in the leather. 
3) You could indeed use the irons to mark and then finish the job with the awl. That's the traditional way, and I think that's how Neil Armitage, an expert British leatherworker, does it. Prepare to spend a day or two watching his videos on handstitching, on YouTube: <https://www.armitageleather.com/online-classes>
But in any case,  you'll need to spend some time practicing, so set aside your project for a while (I know, it's tough!) and work on stitching until you're not fighting it anymore (and thus ruining projects). 

Edited December 1, 2020 by DJole

[Hardrada]

29 minutes ago, Arturomex said:

My take on it is that pricking irons are used to mark hole placement and then an awl is used to pierce the actual hole while stitching chisels go through the leather to create the holes. 

That is the correct definition.

@Simmental: as suggested, use an awl. You don't mention what hardware you have, but if what you have is "pricking irons" you have to use an awl anyway as you're not supposed to use them to punch holes in the leather (although good quality irons can do this on small weight [~1-2 oz] leathers). If what you have are chisels, then you can punch holes on the leather as they're meant to; you just won't be able to penetrate all layers—no problem, punch as much as you are able without making big holes (say, punch only through the first layer) and then use an awl to finish making the holes: set the project over a cork board and insert the awl using the small holes as guide, just make sure your awl is perfectly perpendicular, so that your holes are lined up on the other side. It'll be tedious work, but it's about the only way to do it right.

If you find yourself having to stitch thick layers all the time, it'd be best to get some KS Blade chisels: they're very sharp and can go through thicker layers than the chisels you get from Tandy or Seiwa.

[zuludog]

This sort of question & confusion comes up regularly here. As I understand it - 

PRICKING IRONS have short teeth or prongs. You tap them onto the leather with moderate force and they leave shallow depressions on the surface of the leather to show the position & spacing of the holes, but you make the actual holes with a saddlers awl, aka diamond awl

STITCHING CHISELS have longer prongs. You hit these harder so the prongs go all the way through the leather. However, if the combined thickness is about 9mm or more even these longer prongs will not go all the way through, so you will still have to complete the holes with an awl

An alternative would be to make the holes in each piece of leather separately and line them up as you sew them. This is called pre - pricking

And yes, as you mentioned you can use chisels lightly to indicate the position of the holes, but as with irons, make the holes themselves with an awl 

Watch YouTube videos by JH Leather, especially saddle stitch. She marks with an iron then makes the holes with an awl

Watch YouTube videos by Nigel Armitage on pouches, even if you don't want to make one, as they are masterclasses of precision and show pre - pricking well

You don't say what your project is, that would have been useful. Whatever it is, watch YT videos on it and other items, and see how others do it

You mention 'fewer prongs' and if you have prongs I suspect that means you have a stitching chisel. And most stitching chisels can be improved by polishing the prongs with fine abrasive paper, such as wet & dry intended for car bodywork repairs; work your way through a few grades 400 ->600->800

It helps if you lubricate  the prongs every so often with beeswax

To pull them out, hold down the leather with a small block of wood........... Arturomex's U - shaped tool is even better, I might make one myself. ..........Sand & round off the corners so you don't mark the leather

A more general comment now -

There is a lot of information and advice on YouTube; Play around with the Search box for 'polishing stitching chisels' .......'using stitching chisels'.........the same sort of techniques are used on most items of leatherwork - the saddle stitch is pretty much the same for belts, wallets, sheaths etc, so watch a few videos to see how things are done. These channels are good - Nigel Armitage........Ian Atkinson.......JH Leather.........Leathertoolz.......Geordie Leather.......Weaver Leather

Edited December 1, 2020 by zuludog

[Northmount]

@Simmental  You should read through the information in this pinned thread. 

 

[Simmental]

Thank you very much for all of your replies, there is a lot of good information there!  It's much appreciated. 

I think I was running before walking, time to watch some videos!

Thanks again

[zuludog]

1 hour ago, Simmental said:

Thank you very much for all of your replies, there is a lot of good information there!  It's much appreciated. 

I think I was running before walking, time to watch some videos!

Thanks again

Don't worry about it, we've all got to start somewhere, and it's better than watching daytime TV.

As I said, the same sort of techniques - cutting out, saddle stitch, edge finishing etc - are used on various items, be it belts, wallets, knife sheaths, pouches or bags. As you watch videos you will see that there are variations in the tools used and the exact way of doing things. Gradually you will develop a method that suits you

Edited December 2, 2020 by zuludog