Perfect chisel holes and stitching lines ?

[Wisdomsleather]

I been doing some leather work for awhile and I have tried everything seems like. Perfectly straight up and down chisels. using a wing divider making sure my leather pieces are squared up so when go  to use wing divider has right amount spaceing on the side. I have tried the method of  using couple prongs in the last hole to keep straight but I always seem get bad stitching holes on one side usually on the back side also seems like the chisels aren’t cutting through all they more of pushing through the leather I do have a small mallet should I be skyving my leather 

More so just Vito how get straight holes on the backside of the leather 

[Grumpymann]

Looks like you are using a piece of leather under your work as a cushion, try using a plastics cutting board  at least 1/4 th inch thick.

[chuck123wapati]

I think it takes much practice but in the meantime here's how i do it. lol

I punch each piece separately from the finish side then glue using small brass brads  about every inch or so to  line up the holes then use an awl to clean and make sure they are in line. I use a piece of soft wood, pine, as a punching board and some beeswax for lube. 

[Wisdomsleather]

Thank y’all so much for input means a lot spend hrs cutting it out meticulously and mess up the stitching is no fun I’m gonna use y’all’s advice 

[Tugadude]

Which irons are you using?  How many teeth?  I agree that a soft piece of leather under your work might cause the lines to skew because of unwanted movement.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Tugadude

[jcuk]

3 hours ago, Grumpymann said:

Looks like you are using a piece of leather under your work as a cushion, try using a plastics cutting board  at least 1/4 th inch thick.

Don't use stitching chisels but you need to punch into a firmer surface to punch into.

 

49 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Which irons are you using?  How many teeth?  I agree that a soft piece of leather under your work might cause the lines to skew because of unwanted movement.

Yes it will warp/distort your stitching line.

Hope this helps

JCUK

Edited December 6, 2020 by jcuk

[mike02130]

Are you punching horizontally from left  to right.?   You are on the line but it's obviously coming out the other end awry.  I'd bet money that you are not holding them plumb.  Maybe you have crooked-eye?  I can see the width of your chisel in blocks and can almost count the number of teeth on the tool.  If you are a horizontalist it is impossible to see if they are slightly cocked from front to back, which would result in what I see happening. In other words, mark your line and have it facing to and fro and punch moving away from you so you can sight down the line.  

You may want to think about using an awl to open up those holes on the back of the piece.  You have a giant hole vs small one. May make your stitching look better and go smoother.

I assume you are gluing your work together?

I don't believe it is an issue with your under surface.  I punch on whatever is in reach,  a log off-cut, silicone mat and 6 oz. leather.

 

I glued together two pieces of five ounce leather.  I scribed a line on the front and back. I used a 9 tooth iron. The pictures show the backside.  Top photo was done punching from left to right. The holes missed the line on the backside and looks similar to yours.   The bottom photo I punched moving away from me while sighting the verticalness of my iron.  The holes came out the back on the same line as they went in.  

Let us know iffin ya figure it out.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mike02130
added an indefinite article

[Hardrada]

I use a piece of leather as cushion too, but it's way larger and it has a rough surface. Glue your pieces prior to punching the holes, and then make sure your chisel is perfectly perpendicular. However, when trying to punch through thick layers, say a final thickness of >6 oz, I angle my chisel a wee bit so that the prongs point towards the edge and the head inwards, for I've found that thicker layers tend to pull the prongs away from the edge on the bottom side. You need to gauge how much tilt by experimentation and experience. Try it on scraps.

Another thing I do is to mark the leather first with the chisel as if it were a pricking iron; if I'm happy with the position of the marks, then I punch the holes, otherwise adjust as needed, and then punch the holes.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hardrada

[Grumpymann]

You could also use a stitch groover, it digs out a sliver of the flesh side of the leather and if your tool is sharp and the teeth are IN LINE they will slide in the gruve and keep straight.

[zuludog]

By the look of the picture in the first Post, in the background you are just using a scrap of leather to support your work when using the stitching chisels. Use something larger and firmer, so your work is well supported on a flat even surface; like a plastic (HDPE?) kitchen chopping board or an old magazine - this is strong and firm enough to support the leather, but soft enough that it won't damage the points of the chisels

Polish the prongs with fine abrasive paper, like the wet & dry paper used for car bodywork repairs, going down the grades 600 -> 800 -> 1000 grit....................lubricate the prongs by rubbing them on a block of beeswax now & again..............hold down the leather with a block of wood when you remove the chisel, this will prevent the leather from stretching or being distorted  

Obviously check that the chisel is correctly positioned, but also hold it firmly in place, pressing down into the leather, not just lightly on the surface

Marking the stitching line with dividers is OK.................practice on scrap.............get it right first, even if it's slow, then you can speed up as you get used to it 

Watch a few YouTube videos on making wallets, and other items, and you'll see how other people do things. Try these - 

GEORDIE LEATHER  "#10 Preparing Leather for Stitching - Leatherwork for Beginners"

THE IDENTITY STORE LTD "Using Stitching Chisels in Leathercraft"

Geordie Leather has made a series of 14 or 15 videos for beginners on various aspects of leatherwork, all useful.  

Edited December 7, 2020 by zuludog

[Bigfoote]

You have to make sure your holding your chisel straight up and down, don't lean it or the back will be out of line. The backing isn't that important. Cut a small wood block, and use it to hold your chisel 90 degrees to your leather until you get used to holding it properly. 

[Hildebrand]

I never used the stitching chisels but when i was hand stitching I would use a groover front and back then wet the leather and use a stitching wheel to mark hole locations front and back then I would use an awl to push front to back.  You get a pretty good feel for where the point is coming out and rarely did it miss the stitch groove.  Not sure if thats an option for you but I can tell you it was a lot less stressful than what you are trying to line up.

Todd

[Rahere]

@mike02130' point on axis might be better explained. If you're punching left-right of right-left across in front of you, the punch post will appear vertical, it can hardly be otherwise with five or six teeth either side of it, without being so in a front-back alignment. The answer's to spin things 90 degrees, so the fore-aft wobble is looked after by the outrigging of the pins, and you can see any transverse. Also, have a slightly greater overlap, 2 pins, into the previous set. Only come down to the two-pin punch on curves.        

[JustPete]

In my experience, it's been just as much the angle of my hammer strikes as it is the angle of the irons. A calculated, direct down blow drives the chisels right where I've positioned them leaving a straight and true stitching hole- any variance in angle produces an equally offset stitching hole. This observation really helped my son straighten out his lines on both the front and the back of his pieces. 

[mike02130]

9 hours ago, Rahere said:

@mike02130' point on axis might be better explained. If you're punching left-right of right-left across in front of you, the punch post will appear vertical, it can hardly be otherwise with five or six teeth either side of it, without being so in a front-back alignment. The answer's to spin things 90 degrees, so the fore-aft wobble is looked after by the outrigging of the pins, and you can see any transverse. Also, have a slightly greater overlap, 2 pins, into the previous set. Only come down to the two-pin punch on curves.        

Huh?  Is that what I said or are you saying something else?  I punch like I drive, straight, looking at the road/line in front of me.

[johnv474]

Wisdomsleather, it looks like you are using the diamond stitching forks/chisels that Tandy sells.  Is that correct?

 

Your holes appear straight, as does your stitch line.  However, those punches are not especially sharp (hence, pushing the leather) and they are not especially polished (I believe they have a black painted or powdercoated coating).

 

You can use those punches and get good results but you will do well to have an awl--it doesn't matter the brand but you will have to sharpen and polish it until it has nearly a mirror finish.  You use that awl to stretch the holes and pull your thread through.  Otherwise, you need to buy better punches.  Bang for the buck, I suggest Kevin Lee or Wuta tools (both are available on Ebay or Amazon).

 

Check out Nigel Armitage's video on Youtube about sharpening an awl.  A sharp awl + practice is more important than good punches.

 

PS  skip using wing dividers and definitely skip the stitch groover.  You don't want a groove for the stitch.  You don't want wing dividers unless you are absolutely 100% certain that your edge has been cut perfectly straight.  Instead, use your scratch awl ($3) and a straight edge and drag the awl along the ruler/straightedge to guarantee a straight stitch line.  Then, be sure your forks have pointed tips so they can nestle into that line.  There are even steps to being sure you hit it straight down.  Then, when you pull out, don't yank it out.  Hold the leather down on both sides of your stitching fork/chisel or else the leather and holes will stretch (and each one will stretch differently. You don't want that).

 

PPS if you want the back to look just as good, then let the chisels punch/push through, then flip your piece over and tap your stitching chisel/fork into the SAME HOLES.  You are NOT trying to punch through but just to smooth out the top half of the leather so the pushed out leather is instead in that hole.  Yes, it will make them slant the other way, some.  Ignore that.  Use it that way, and return and report.

Best of luck!

Edited December 9, 2020 by johnv474

[mike02130]

Hmm, The poster seems to be M.I.A.?

 

[Wisdomsleather]

Thanks for all the Info i work crazy hrs my regular job:/ I have two sets I bought set from weaver leather craft and then I bought set from Kevin lee noticed Mascon leather uses his products had hard time finding good chisels they seem to be better then weaver ones and I will definitely get something better to punch into I also think my hammering skills need work too cause I just have really small mallet takes quite few swings just get it go through the leather and smallness of the mallet doesn’t help it’s Amazon special I been practicing with cheap tools and slowly up gradeing things as I go but definitely couple things that would significantly help and alots of practice holding my stitching chisels straight 

[Tugadude]

24 minutes ago, Wisdomsleather said:

Thanks for all the Info i work crazy hrs my regular job:/ I have two sets I bought set from weaver leather craft and then I bought set from Kevin lee noticed Mascon leather uses his products had hard time finding good chisels they seem to be better then weaver ones and I will definitely get something better to punch into I also think my hammering skills need work too cause I just have really small mallet takes quite few swings just get it go through the leather and smallness of the mallet doesn’t help it’s Amazon special I been practicing with cheap tools and slowly up gradeing things as I go but definitely couple things that would significantly help and alots of practice holding my stitching chisels straight 

Good old practice works wonders.  I've seen videos where people get excellent results from mediocre tools.  

[johnv474]

On 12/9/2020 at 3:40 PM, mike02130 said:

Hmm, The poster seems to be M.I.A.?

 

As often happens.  People are so desperate to get answers and never return to tell you what worked, what didn't, what they already tried, etc.

It can make it feel less worthwhile to answer these quesitons at all.

[Wisdomsleather]

Here is another pic from today using the tips every one suggested a lot better then last project

[Rahere]

Getting there. Now to consider a stitching channeller to allow it to recess and become more of a line rather than a surface, and possibly a stitching pony/horse/clamp to allow you to concentrate entirely on each stitch. Then plenty of practice until it's there.

My musical firends tell me an amateur practices until they get it right, a pro until they cannot get it wrong.

[mike02130]

Looking much better.  How far over is your stitch line from the edge?  Maybe try 1/8" and thinner thread.

[Retswerb]

Nice improvement, @Wisdomsleather! What do you see looking at your recent work that you would like to improve?

[Wisdomsleather]

Thanks I think I did a almost quarter inch for the width from the edge. I did pick up stitching pony makes big difference. before hand I had a table vice clamp with with two pieces leather on outside so wouldn’t leave marks had to improvise back then.And think next step figure out how get leather on backside not to have a pinched look when I punch throw with chisels seems to look pinched when done stitching maybe need not tighten the stitching so much alots practice needed still and like a stitching groover  leave channel so more flush to leather ? Alots specialty tools that slowly add to collection over time just gotta practice with tools for now I really appreciate the feed back