Sharpening a ceramic swivel knife

[Gabriel Rasa]

Basically: is it necessary?

I keep seeing people on youtube and whatnot stropping their ceramic blades before use, but I've been using the same ceramic filigree blade for all the work I do for... eight years now? Haven't stropped or sharpened it once, and the only time I notice it dragging is when the leather is cheap and spongy and/or badly cased. Would I be getting better results if I did? Or are the youtubers stropping unnecessarily?

[DJole]

Good question -- if you have never stropped it, try the experiment: cut without stropping, then strop it and cut again, and see if it makes a difference.
The material differences between metal and ceramic might come into play here, but I'm just guessing. 

[Rhale]

I’ve only used one years ago and didn’t use a whole lot then but I remember that stropping seemed to help quite a bit!

[Gabriel Rasa]

7 minutes ago, DJole said:

Good question -- if you have never stropped it, try the experiment: cut without stropping, then strop it and cut again, and see if it makes a difference.
The material differences between metal and ceramic might come into play here, but I'm just guessing. 

I was never great at stropping even when I did use a metal swivel knife -- I was never sure which jeweler's rouge/compound I was supposed to be using, and couldn't actually tell whether it was making a difference. (Though if anybody can weigh in on that, I'm sure I've still got all the stuff kicking around somewhere.) When I'm sharpening razor blades I use a regular whetstone, and I've found that finishing it off with a ceramic whetstone makes a world of difference in how smoothly it cuts, but I'm guessing you can't sharpen a ceramic blade with a ceramic whetstone. =/

[YinTx]

I looked at my ceramic blade under a 10x loop, and could see grind marks from the factory.  I "sharpened" it (ie, removed the grind marks and got a nice polish on it) and now no drag.. at. all.  Strop once in a while if I feel like it, but with white rouge on a piece of cardstock, not leather.  I think I used a Cerax stone to hone, but don't remember.  Possible I used some sand paper because I didn't want to damage the stone.  But they will take a shine like glass if you work them.  Unfortunately, mine has an old crack, so I can only use the one side, which means I usually pick up a metal blade as a favorite.

YinTx

[Gabriel Rasa]

3 minutes ago, YinTx said:

I looked at my ceramic blade under a 10x loop, and could see grind marks from the factory.  I "sharpened" it (ie, removed the grind marks and got a nice polish on it) and now no drag.. at. all.  Strop once in a while if I feel like it, but with white rouge on a piece of cardstock, not leather.  I think I used a Cerax stone to hone, but don't remember.  Possible I used some sand paper because I didn't want to damage the stone.  But they will take a shine like glass if you work them.  Unfortunately, mine has an old crack, so I can only use the one side, which means I usually pick up a metal blade as a favorite.

YinTx

Aha, this is what I was after! What did you use to remove the grind marks? Was that the sandpaper? I'm assuming you used a super fine grain?

[YinTx]

yes, I probably started at 600 grit and worked all the way to 2000 grit before polishing with rouge.  It's been a while since I did it, but I was really happy with the outcome.  Use a high quality 3m paper if you can.

YinTx

[Dogwood]

Question for you, as the internet seems to be strangely vague on this - what are the advantages of ceramic vs. metal? I'm in the market to upgrade from my cheap, beginner no-name swivel and currently in the research phase. 

[YinTx]

1 hour ago, Dogwood said:

Question for you, as the internet seems to be strangely vague on this - what are the advantages of ceramic vs. metal? I'm in the market to upgrade from my cheap, beginner no-name swivel and currently in the research phase. 

Ceramic Pros:  Should already be sharp.  Should always stay sharp.  You will have to strop.  I found I had to sharpen and polish mine, so this pro went away.

Ceramic Cons:  Brittle.  Easy to chip or crack, once this happens, usually useless.  Mine has a crack, I can still use it though one side works better than the other for sure.

Metal Pros:  Easy to sharpen, easy to polish.  You can change the angle of the grind if you desire.  You will have to strop.

Metal Cons:  You will have to sharpen most common brand blades when you receive it.  The more expensive, high end brands will come already sharp, so this con goes away.  You may have to sharpen it again in your lifetime.  Usually stropping does the trick tho.

I have a small collection of swivel knives, and it is small compared to other's collections.  Everything I can do with an expensive blade I can do with my cheapest blade.  You could not have convinced me of this before I had my collection, because I was sure a great blade would change my world.  Yes, an expensive tool is wonderful to use.  Unless you just gotta have it tho, probably not worth the orders of magnitude price difference.  I still regularly pick up my old lower end Tandy swivel because I like the angle of the grind, and I managed to get a very good polish on the blade and it cuts very well.  Even Jim Linnell, who has an impressive array of vintage, collectible, and high end swivels always seems to pick up his Tandy Ergo swivel to teach his classes.

As an aside, Robert Beard will sharpen your blade for you for free for life (_his_ lifetime, not yours or the tool's!)  He has just done this for a blade that I picked up second hand that had  a bad regrind on it.  I have not put it to use yet, I am still hoping that it will change my world, so my assertion that no one can convince me that a cheap blade will do the trick even if it is true, still holds.

YinTx 

[JayEhl]

On 2/24/2021 at 11:23 AM, YinTx said:

As an aside, Robert Beard will sharpen your blade for you for free for life

@YinTx  Can you share what contact method is best to make this arrangement?  

Edited August 4, 2021 by JayEhl