Lu-562 111w155 BIG bobbin conversion

[DonInReno]

Honestly I never thought a big bobbin conversion would be worth the hassle - definitely not something that would increase a machine’s value enough to justify the cost of parts and labor.

However....once you have one big bobbin machine all normal bobbins look tiny!  Lol    A Consew 206rb came along and spoiled me - it’s time to upgrade two Singers and a Juki lu-562.

The plan is to make the conversion with the existing saddles, but if I run into problems I have 563 parts on hand to simply swap out the parts.

The way I understand it there are two ways to go about it - use a lu-563 hook saddle assembly, or modify the existing hook saddle (#38) and case opener crank (#37).   Either way a new lu-563 case opener (#35) and thread take up lever is used.

I seem to recall someone saying if the saddle of a Singer 111w is modified it will expose a bushing set screw.   I don’t know if a new hole can simply be drilled and tapped in a different location for that set screw, but that seems easy enough to overcome.

You can get a bare lu-563 hook saddle or one complete with all its bushings and screws for not much more.   The one I purchased was sold as an authentic Juki part, but I doubt it is.  Still, it appears to be well made.   What you’ll immediately notice is how much bigger the saddle is - much taller around the lower bushing and the hook shaft is longer.   

I ordered two generic Chinese take up arms and one generic arm from Japan.  The Japanese arm is 4mm longer than one and 5mm longer than the second Chinese arm.  The Japanese arm also has a smaller cylindrical shaft, but the slider thingy that rides on the shaft is also included so it should work fine - weird, but fine.

 I have a sinking feeling the Chinese arms are an inbetween  size that works on either 562 or 563, but not ideal for either.  I have yet to take out the original arms, so we’ll see soon enough.  

The three hooks are from two different generic suppliers - all have good machining and appear to be well made - only time will tell the quality of metal.

Placing the 563 hook in the 562 saddle, it is 2.75mm taller (.109”) at the case alignment tab that fits into the needle plate, so that’s the amount that needs to be machined off both the upper bushing and surrounding area of the saddle.  

 Relative to the top of the hook, the 563 case opener appears to be mounted (at the attachment screw) only .75mm lower than the 562.   If that amount is taken off the saddle in the area of the case opener crank, the figure-8 connector will have to be ground down a few mm to clear the underside of the hook.    A 563 case opener crank could be used if that area of the saddle is taken down the full 2.75mm.   Also, if the 562 crank is used, a small portion will have to be ground away to avoid rubbing the hook.

I seem to recall previous conversations mentioning the need to grind clearance on the underside of the bed for the 563 saddle to clear - I’ll let you know what I find when I get to that point.    

edit:   The parts diagram shows a juki lu-563 on the right and 562 on left.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by DonInReno

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

People used to do this quite a bit back in the day, but it hasn't been cost effective for decades.  That said, who cares if someone just wants to do it?  

In my opinion, use or get an LU-563 hook saddle  B1811563000.  I never heard of using the existing LU-562 saddle or a Singer 111W.  I'm not at all saying that it can't be done, but I've never seen it done that way.  LU-563 machines are almost 30 years old or more, some parts have to be available.  Take up lever, if you can get new genuine, I would do that if you are not sure.  It's a real problem to change this take up up lever in and out if it does not fit or work properly.  B19055630B0 is the part number for the take up lever.  Same for the hook.  You can get a made in Japan hook, if you want to go heavy thread like the LU-1508NH you can use B1830563BA0.  You could have everything correct but if the hook is bad from the start, it could be trouble.  Like needles, hooks are very rarely of poor quality from a good Japanese or Italian manufacture.  You also are going to want the bobbin case opening lever, B1824563000.

This is how I would start this project, and I'm interested to see how it works out.   

[DonInReno]

Thanks Greg for adding the part numbers - and I think you are right about the benefit of using genuine parts if possible.

It was definitely an omission on my part to not say there are different hooks for either light thread or heavy.   I’ve been scanning eBay for genuine Juki hooks, but the only ones that seem to come up are for fine thread - I definitely want to use the xxxBOA hook for heavy thread.  

For fellow part scroungers, I’ve had much better luck searching for used or new old stock parts by the Juki part numbers.   Many people don’t know what a part fits, only what the part number is.

I’ve ordered four case openers from different suppliers and the gentle upward curve varies in height by .75mm (.030”) - This is another item that would be nice to use real Juki parts since the tab the case opener operates on is only 1.72mm (.068”) thick and alignment should be somewhat close.  These cheap openers will have to be clamped in a vice and “adjusted” with a hammer. One of the case openers looks noticeably shorter in overall length with less of a “hook” than the others.

There are also some differences in dimensions between genuine Juki bushings and hooks, and the cheap generic ones that I didn’t notice at first.    The factory juki hook has a shaft .3747”, one generic hook is .3731” and another is .3744” - if you are a detail oriented person this much variation will drive you nuts.  I also ordered five upper hook shaft bushings and their sizes vary as much.   It is interesting that the factory hook is too large to fit any of the new bushings, while the undersized shafts of the generic hooks actually have a decent fit.

My advice if ordering generic low quality parts directly from China is to order from various suppliers and count on some parts being unusable and all parts being slightly off in various ways.

 

 

[Constabulary]

I´m kicking around this large hook conversion idea for... ever. Actually never ordered other parts then the hook. Back then (guess more than 1.5 years ago) I got one from JIE YI  - made de in Taiwan and it appears to be quite good quality. They at least have a website and looks like this is the "heavy thread" version (B1830563BA0) according to their website:  http://www.jieyihooks.com/PRO/jieyi/JRT1/1055.html

 

[CowboyBob]

We've done quite a few of them back in the day the 563 hook is taller so that is why you need to mill the upper part ,I forgot how much it was,but there's no grinding or anything underneath,as Grag said using a 563 saddle is the easiest way.

Edited February 14, 2021 by CowboyBob

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

We've done quite a few of them back in the day the 563 hook is taller so that is why you need to mill the upper part ,I forgot how much it was,but there's no grinding or anything underneath, as Gregg said using a 563 saddle is the easiest way.

I think that is what you did when you converted my long arm Singer 139w109 into an LU big bobbin machine.

[vortexalternator]

Thanks for all that info. It was very helpful in my mods.

I just upgraded my 111w153 to a large bobbin with a heavy thread B1830563BA0 hook. The hook cost all of $20 including ten bobbins! It's actually a surprisingly high quality, made in Taiwan unit and works perfectly. The machining of the saddle could be done on a decent drill press equipped with a square end mill and either an inexpensive cross slide or a thoughtful reposition-able clamping set up. Just set your depth stop and carefully chain drill 0.1" off of each land. I happen to have a milling machine so it was easy for me. The machining of the case opening lever arm "trough" does expose a set screw (make sure you remove it before you start) but on my saddle, the shaft to bore was such a tight clearance, I didn't move the set screw. I simply carefully tapped the shaft back in. The arm is under so little load, I am confident it will never move. I thought of applying some retaining compound but the risk of getting in the shaft clearance and gluing the arm to the shaft is too great.

I also modified this machine in several ways to match the specs of a 111w155 with regards to the lift of the presser foot and the height of the vibrating presser foot. I believe these 111w machines are all basically made from the same casting. If you want to do this, with the exception of the pocket on the main casting, you can replace parts or modify them. The pocket could be milled out with a square end carbide die grinder.

This is the parts list and required modifications:

Presser bar lifting bracket: I milled the Presser Bar Lifting Bracket "pocket" to match the specs on the 155, which allows the same lift of the 155 if you install or modify the requisite Presser Bar Lifting Bracket. The modification requires machining the top part of the main arm to clear the end of the take up arm shaft. This could be carefully machined with a grinder or a die grinder.

Presser bar bushing (lower): The presser bar bushing (lower) can be cut off in place, removed and turned shorter or pressed out and replaced. I estimated that the 155 unit is about 1/4" shorter. This could be done carefully with a hack saw, just make sure to deburr the edges when done.

Tension release slide (optional) This can be replaced but the 153 version seems to work regardless.

Presser bar lifter (optional) The 153 version also works as-is but the 155 unit will lift the presser bar higher.

Is this a lot of work? Not as much as you might think. Most of it is disassembly and re-assembly and if you do a clean up of your machine at the same time, it can even be economical.  For those of us with more time than money or who do this as a hobby, it may take less time and money than looking for, buying, shipping and moving a new machine.

Next up, installing the adjustable lifting eccentric singer number 240744 or 237196. https://www.bmfwholesale.com/product/eccentric-singer-number-240744-237196/

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by vortexalternator

[vortexalternator]

Big hook 111w155/153

Some of the issues that confused me when researching and planning for this were the discussions around using the stock 111w saddle. There was some doubt as to whether a stock 111w155 or 111w153 saddle could be successfully modified for a large bobbin hook. The short answer is yes, it can. I have no experience with other saddles but I thought I would pass on what I observed with the stock one.

The large B1830563BA0 heavy thread hook was almost exactly 0.1" taller when installed in the stock saddle. This means that the two bearing surfaces and the round clearance pocket each have to be machined down the same amount. There are two bearing surfaces and a pocket to clear the nut that holds on the small crank pin. The first surface is where the figure eight lever crank rests. The second bearing surface is where the opening lever arm rests. The pocket to clear the nut is just a round recess. Machining these three areas allows the the hook to sit lower, so that the top of the hook ends up at the same level as the stock one. Both bronze bushings that the hook rides in were in good shape on my machine. If they are worn, this is a good time to replace them.

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by vortexalternator

[vortexalternator]

Just adding this bit of info: The 563 bobbin is a U style. The ebay listing for the hook I got was incorrect and said it was M for some reason.

[DonInReno]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:15 PM, vortexalternator said:

Just adding this bit of info: The 563 bobbin is a U style. The ebay listing for the hook I got was incorrect and said it was M for some reason.

Your write up of the machining project was very good!   

[vortexalternator]

Thanks. I was inspired by your post and thought I would pay it forward.

 

I also since installed the adjustable lift height mechanism on the needle bar shaft, and the 155 stitch length disc and eccentric. It now has the full stitch length and the adjustable lift of a 155. It is now a post factory "155U".  The lift mechanism was a bit tricky to clock,  but I did get it right. The only issue on the lift adj. mech. I had was the adjusting screw hitting a little bump on the casting on the inside when at the highest lift setting. I will grind off a bit of the screw and that should clear it. If anyone plans to do this, check for any bumps in the casting around the arm slot that might interfere with the rotation of the mechanism. It could have been ground off if I had known and I don't really want to take it apart again just for that.

 

Interesting project "unlocking the different levels" to quote video game speak, and an education in manufacturing logic. It sure is nice to have that massive bobbin in there. I have been trying out some 138 nylon thread and so far it works fine.