Binding Attachment issues...

[MtlBiker]

I'm still very much a beginner sewer but I'm improving every day.  Slowly, mind you, but improving.  I'm running into a problem with installing binding on a small belt pouch I've been working on.  I use a Consew 206RB-5 with swing-away 3/4" binding attachment.  The problem I'm having is that part of my pouch is too thick to pass through the end of the binding attachment and either it jams or pops out of the attachment making the binding and stitch go off the pouch.  I'm trying now to put on the binding more by hand, by first clipping it into place but it's really tough, particularly around the round corners of the pouch (there was no problem with the corners when using the binding attachment).

So my question is are there binding attachments with larger space at the exit point of the attachment?  How do people bind thicker stuff like carpets, etc.?  Is there a better way?

The part of my pouch that gets stuck isn't really all that thick... 2 layers of 1000D Cordura, 2 of 600D and a doubled binding.  My sewing machine has no problem at all with that thickness of material.  It's just the binding attachment that is the problem.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Constabulary]

12 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

So my question is are there binding attachments with larger space at the exit point of the attachment?

Basically YES but you have to look up the specs. There are usually 3 measures you have to consider when looking for a binding attachment (beside the way the tape is folded)  1: tape width (cut size)  2: tape thickness and 3: mouth width.

On some attachment these values are marked if not ask the seller.

On ebay you sometimes find "wide mouth binders" but still - ask the seller for the mouth width....

 

EDIT:

not sure if this one could help you:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAW-TAPE-BINDER-WIDE-MOUTH-for-Typical-GC2605-Cylinder-Arm-machines/322427577045

Edited February 21, 2021 by Constabulary

[MtlBiker]

18 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Basically YES but you have to look up the specs. There are usually 3 measures you have to consider when looking for a binding attachment (beside the way the tape is folded)  1: tape width (cut size)  2: tape thickness and 3: mouth width.

On some attachment these values are marked if not ask the seller.

On ebay you sometimes find "wide mouth binders" but still - ask the seller for the mouth width....

 

EDIT:

not sure if this one could help you:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAW-TAPE-BINDER-WIDE-MOUTH-for-Typical-GC2605-Cylinder-Arm-machines/322427577045

Yes, great, it certainly does help!  Thank you.

It's really hard to measure, but the mouth size on my binder is about 2.6mm.  The one you linked to doesn't specify what the mouth size actually is... just states wide mouth.  And it also says that it doesn't ship to Canada (where I am).  I just checked the Sailrite site and they have one that says will work with material that compresses to about 3.6mm.  As near as I can measure, my assembly including the binding tape is 3.8mm.  The Sailrite one may or may not work.

I'm guessing that there are binding attachments with even wider mouth sizes... for carpets, etc. 

Now that I know they exist, I'l search one out.

I'm not succeeding in applying the binding manually with my little pouch.  SIGH

 

[kgg]

On your regular flatbed binders if the exit isn't wide enough sometimes you can carefully pry the opening wider with a small screwdriver as well as prying the top side of the mouth edge more to the vertical position. I have done this on various sizes of binders using the screwdriver that is normally used for loosening the needle tightening screw and the even smaller one for adjusting the bobbin tension.

[Constabulary]

but the one on ebay shows a picture with a tape measure on the mouth - check the pictures or ask the seller.

[kgg]

Possible alternative sewing method would be to sew up close as you can to the thick section. I think you are using a swing away on the binder.  With the needle fully embedded in the material raise the pressor foot up, swing the binder away from material, lower pressor foot and hand wheel over the hump, swing the binder back in place and continue sewing.

kgg

[nylonRigging]

Binding is always a BIG PIA to learn , 'everyone' has Lot's Of Headaches at first...LOL . and is a pretty in-depth study throughout your entire time sewing .

Single Needle . You should be able to get by with most what your binding with 3/4" tape with,  5.5 or 6 mm  mouth/throat on the Binder.
Your using bias weave tape, and that is good flexible for doing tighter radius . ( Just my feeling ) probably your biggest problems with the way your tape is tracking and feeding to sew, might be the way your Binder is set-up to your machine to materials used. . and just your lack of technique built up doing it . like negotiating the thicker seams or sections that your passing over.

Also .. Not to say that you cant do decent binding with a generic . but there a BIG difference in end product quality, between using generic Binders bought off the internet, and buying custom soldered binding throats . I have always got best results using hand built/soldered setups and the Tape/Binding always tracks the best threw there throats. But generics are Good Learners to build technique.
-
On that link posted of ( ngosew ) . I always got positive dealings with them for several years.  if you call or Email NGO sew , they always get back to you. They are down a little S. of me in Salem OR.
mail --> ( info@ngosew.com ) ...  Jack or Liam are the 2 contacts that I have dealt with.
.

[nylonRigging]

10 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I just checked the Sailrite site and they have one that says will work with material that compresses to about 3.6mm.  As near as I can measure, my assembly including the binding tape is 3.8mm.  The Sailrite one may or may not work.

Sailrite binders are still pretty generic and are nothing special . Your going to want a Right angle to do corners and negotiate radius proper .  So Ask Sailrite if they build a R-angle 3/4" binder with an adjustable mounting bracket for your Consew .

Also take into consideration your foot setup on your machine . Your going to want to adapt the Binder side of the press foot, so the Binder can slip in there close as possible for good position .

-

...edit add: .

I Mic'ed both my Single Needle, and Double Needle binders and they both are around the ( 5.5mm ) in mouth openings . Your upper post say's you are using a 2.6mm opening, and you were getting tight on negotiating over transitions of thickness of added seams ..etc  with the flow of your binding. 

Your 2.8mm sounds ideal for thin edge and a nice finish, but you need bigger for thicker material with good flow up and over spots . Also, I just checked with the single needle and 3/4" tape . and ( for me )  the thickest I would Bind with 3/4" tape with single needle is about 4.5mm thick of material stacked to look good . You can only push 3/4" so far for a wrap and look nice .

This also .. ( Just my opinion )  Use GOOD Quality binding . Your using 3/4" bias weave and type lll binding . The day I quit buying subpar Import crap binding trying to save a Dollar, and 100% moved to good US milled product, was the smartest thing I ever did . The majority of import is hideously out of Spec. it's CRAP that does not track and flow , it causes more headache that the worth of saving a few dollars over Quality binding.

.

Edited February 22, 2021 by nylonRigging

[Kcstott]

Thanks for topic. following as I may need to get a binding attachment in the future and I don't have a bloody clue about these things. 

[Wizcrafts]

I'm not sure, but around 1995 I think I bought 1.25 inch wide edge bias tape from Cansew for use on road workers' safety vests. It was top quality tape. The double fold binder had to be custom made for the work at hand. It was a right angle swing away binder. The binder worked flawlessly in conjunction with a left toe presser foot and a shortened wider inside foot. The feet worked fine on the standard sewn areas and the binder could be swung in and out as required. The parts and tape weren't cheap, but produced professional results. I also purchased a revolving bias tape tray that clamped onto the edge of the table. Taking the load off the tape improves the feeding through the attachment.

[kgg]

3 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

Use GOOD Quality binding .

I agree that the quality of binding and thread can make all the difference to the final look. I like using American & Efird thread and bindings mostly nylon twill as I think a twill weave offers a little extra strength.

57 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I also purchased a revolving bias tape tray that clamped onto the edge of the table. Taking the load off the tape improves the feeding through the attachment.

Most definitely anytime you can reduce /eliminated an angle or stress/load the better and a horizontally mounted platter with a centre load-bearing race will reduce the amount of effort necessary to get the tape from the spool to under the needle. I like using standard inline flatbed binders even on my cylinder bed rather then 90 degree binders for three reasons. Cost, ease of setup and they put less stress/ load on the pressor foot / feet dog.

kgg

[MtlBiker]

12 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

Sailrite binders are still pretty generic and are nothing special . Your going to want a Right angle to do corners and negotiate radius proper .  So Ask Sailrite if they build a R-angle 3/4" binder with an adjustable mounting bracket for your Consew .

Also take into consideration your foot setup on your machine . Your going to want to adapt the Binder side of the press foot, so the Binder can slip in there close as possible for good position .

-

...edit add: .

I Mic'ed both my Single Needle, and Double Needle binders and they both are around the ( 5.5mm ) in mouth openings . Your upper post say's you are using a 2.6mm opening, and you were getting tight on negotiating over transitions of thickness of added seams ..etc  with the flow of your binding. 

Your 2.8mm sounds ideal for thin edge and a nice finish, but you need bigger for thicker material with good flow up and over spots . Also, I just checked with the single needle and 3/4" tape . and ( for me )  the thickest I would Bind with 3/4" tape with single needle is about 4.5mm thick of material stacked to look good . You can only push 3/4" so far for a wrap and look nice .

This also .. ( Just my opinion )  Use GOOD Quality binding . Your using 3/4" bias weave and type lll binding . The day I quit buying subpar Import crap binding trying to save a Dollar, and 100% moved to good US milled product, was the smartest thing I ever did . The majority of import is hideously out of Spec. it's CRAP that does not track and flow , it causes more headache that the worth of saving a few dollars over Quality binding.

 

Thanks very much for your great reply! 

I have no idea if the binding I'm using is good quality or not.  Are you saying that you can recognize what I'm using from my photo and that it's not good quality?  I bought a full spool of 1" and 3/4" from American and Efrid,  It's a poly twill tape.  And the only one they offer.  Is there a supplier and brand you recommend? 

The mouth opening on your binder is about double the size of the one I'm using!  Wow!  I've emailed another supplier to ask if they have any wide-mouth binders.  Any suggestion as to where to buy one?  Most I'm finding don't specify at all the mouth opening size.  Sailrite was the only one I found so far which does specify.

This is a pretty small item I'm trying to make and I think using 1" binding would be overkill.  The 3/4" wraps around the edges very nicely as long as I could feed it properly.

I'm not quite clear on your "right angle" binder comment.  Any chance you could point me to a photo of one?  I have a couple of fixed (not swing-away) binder attachments and a couple of swing-away.  I'm guessing that neither is the right angle one you mention.

Thanks very much!

 

10 hours ago, Kcstott said:

Thanks for topic. following as I may need to get a binding attachment in the future and I don't have a bloody clue about these things. 

That makes two of us! 

 

[MtlBiker]

8 hours ago, kgg said:

I like using American & Efird thread and bindings mostly nylon twill as I think a twill weave offers a little extra strength.

 

I bought my binding tape from American and Efird, and it's a polyester twill.  On their website they don't list a nylon twill tape... would you suggest that a nylon twill would be better than polyester twill?

[nylonRigging]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

Thanks very much for your great reply! 

I have no idea if the binding I'm using is good quality or not.  Are you saying that you can recognize what I'm using from my photo and that it's not good quality?  I bought a full spool of 1" and 3/4" from American and Efrid,  It's a poly twill tape.  And the only one they offer.  Is there a supplier and brand you recommend? 

The mouth opening on your binder is about double the size of the one I'm using!  Wow!  I've emailed another supplier to ask if they have any wide-mouth binders.  Any suggestion as to where to buy one?  Most I'm finding don't specify at all the mouth opening size.  Sailrite was the only one I found so far which does specify.

This is a pretty small item I'm trying to make and I think using 1" binding would be overkill.  The 3/4" wraps around the edges very nicely as long as I could feed it properly.

I'm not quite clear on your "right angle" binder comment.  Any chance you could point me to a photo of one?  I have a couple of fixed (not swing-away) binder attachments and a couple of swing-away.  I'm guessing that neither is the right angle one you mention.

 

 

My ego eye can't tell what brand of binding you are using by the Pic. ..LOL .  I was just saying that I have had real bad issues with a lot Import, NonUS milled binding Tape, especially in the mil.spec.typelll .
Me If I buying binding, Usually buy from Bally Ribbon, but If I have bought from other suppliers I make it a point to ask where they bought it from because until you run a lot of good quality and bad tape, it hard for you to really see the differences .

I see on-line generics that say and list different options of throat widths . If you don't see listed, You need to email or call them and ask for an answer of sizes available . but If a company can't tell you what the simple feed opening of a binder is, then you should have nothing to do with them .
You live in Canada, so I don't know if you have any Shops that build to order . If you want 'one' of the Best for custom soldering made to your specific wants, I go to Tenn. attachment . Just expect to spend a few hundred $ minimum, and you can easy get up to about 600-$ pretty quick . but you get something that will last and give quality results.

Right Angle Binder, is feeding your tape into the throat at a 90deg. off to the side, and not straight in front of you . Your binding then makes turn and folds into the Throat, running into your machine feed .
( me ) , I like a swingarm bracket for a top load bobbin machines, with the Binder system mounted on the slide plate covers .
.

[chrisash]

You may find Collegesewing site handy for information as they have three big makers of binders even if just for information

 

Folders and Attachments | College Sewing Machine Parts Ltd (college-sewing.co.uk)

Edited February 22, 2021 by chrisash

[Vertiges]

Hi MtlBiker,

You could also try to contact : http://bjattachments.com/ (in Montréal, Pierrefonds.)

They can build custom attachement depending your machine type, the bias tape you use, etc.

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

You live in Canada, so I don't know if you have any Shops that build to order

Contact Techsew in Montreal and ask about getting a custom attachment made. Otherwise, get in touch with General Industrial Sewing Machines in Toronto. They can either make one or put you in touch with a guru.

[Constabulary]

Your binding does not look like a huge problem. You should not have have serious issues with "ecconoomic" binders but there are too many out there to make a basic statement. Anyway - all my binders are cheap, one is custom made but I bought is used along with 132K parts a while ago and I´m barely using it. All binders are working w/o problem. When I stared my "binding experience" I bought the cheapest I could find cause It was just for trying out and to gain some experience. I really did not expect that they work so well. Of course you need to set them up properly. The 3 numbers I mentioned a above are essential the rest is proper mounting (basically). The first 3 sets I bought were these flat bed binder / needle plate / feed dog / presser foot sets for approx 10€ - 15€ or so and I just modified the bracket. And I´m really happy with them. I meanwhile have 7 binders. The one I use the most is an el cheapo and I run fairly thick 3/4" wide cotton mil spec edge tape through it.

This is what I´m using (my first 3 binders) but I paid less back then on Ebay Germany. You may note the distinguish wire bracket on the mouth. But as I said I modified the bracket and the rest went to scrap metal box.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sewing-Machine-Right-Angle-Raw-Edge-Top-Bottom-Binder-Set/162106978932

Edited February 23, 2021 by Constabulary

[chrisash]

I notice a video that is for a pfaff machine shows a feed dog with a hole for synchronizing the binder are these dogs avail;abe anywhere, a quick search of google failed to find them see

DIY Synchronized Binder for Pfaff 545-H3 Walking Foot Machine - YouTube

Edited February 23, 2021 by chrisash

[kgg]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

The one I use the most is an el cheapo

I use the el cheapo binders on all my machines (flatbed or cylinder bed) as well.The only difference is I use the in line style you would typically use on flatbeds. Sometimes I use a swing away attachment, just depends on what I am binding. You just got to set them up properly to do the job. I just have a hard time paying the extra for a custom binder for my needs. Break / Fail replace for $20 Cad.

In the photo's I am using a 38mm (1.5") raw edge binder with a swing away attachment in combination with a 13" horizontally mounted platter that has a centre load-bearing race.

kgg

 

 

[MtlBiker]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Contact Techsew in Montreal and ask about getting a custom attachment made. Otherwise, get in touch with General Industrial Sewing Machines in Toronto. They can either make one or put you in touch with a guru.

Thanks Wizcrafts!

Do you know of Chris at Japan Sewing in Toronto?  I was talking to him yesterday and he's sending me two binding attachments (3/4" and 1") that are more than double in mouth size than what I have.  I'd sent him photos of what I'm trying to bind, my current binder attachment as well as the presser foot I'm using, plus measurements.  He's also sending me a presser foot specifically for use when binding.

I should have it all today.  And I can try it out tonight when I get home.

[MtlBiker]

5 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Your binding does not look like a huge problem. You should not have have serious issues with "ecconoomic" binders but there are too many out there to make a basic statement. Anyway - all my binders are cheap, one is custom made but I bought is used along with 132K parts a while ago and I´m barely using it. All binders are working w/o problem. When I stared my "binding experience" I bought the cheapest I could find cause It was just for trying out and to gain some experience. I really did not expect that they work so well. Of course you need to set them up properly. The 3 numbers I mentioned a above are essential the rest is proper mounting (basically). The first 3 sets I bought were these flat bed binder / needle plate / feed dog / presser foot sets for approx 10€ - 15€ or so and I just modified the bracket. And I´m really happy with them. I meanwhile have 7 binders. The one I use the most is an el cheapo and I run fairly thick 3/4" wide cotton mil spec edge tape through it.

This is what I´m using (my first 3 binders) but I paid less back then on Ebay Germany. You may note the distinguish wire bracket on the mouth. But as I said I modified the bracket and the rest went to scrap metal box.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sewing-Machine-Right-Angle-Raw-Edge-Top-Bottom-Binder-Set/162106978932

 

I've ordered a couple of binding attachments which are supposedly almost double the mouth size than the ones I have.  They should be here today.

Can you explain the "coil" on the attachments you're using?  Is that specifically for cylinder bed machines or flat bed also?  The two I currently have don't have that.  My binding is on a large spool and when I stick the spool on a flat support with a dowel in the middle, the spool spins really smoothly.  I don't think there's a problem with friction in this setup.  It's almost as if the spool was on ball bearings.

I don't know what the new binders will look like (if they're different I'll post a photo later), but here is what my current ones look like:

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by MtlBiker

[Constabulary]

The coils are just tape guides.

2 hours ago, kgg said:

I just have a hard time paying the extra for a custom binder for my needs. Break / Fail replace for $20 Cad.

agree - the "off the shelf" binders usually work very well and if one fails try another but so far they are all good!

An interesting setup you have there!

BTW - College Sewing in the UK offers a hard copy catalogue and there are plenty of folding / hemming attachments in it - great overview. Just for the case someone places an order there ask for a hard copy of their catalogue. Its not their full program in it but really a lot - great info source.

But they also have a PDF:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/pub/media/brochures/CSMP-Catalogue-2018.pdf

Edited February 23, 2021 by Constabulary

[MtlBiker]

@Constabulary @kgg

I just received the new binders and they may be the wrong ones, unless I'm totally misunderstanding how these work.

Are these what are called "right-angle" binders?  Is the binding meant to feed in from the right (at 90 degrees to the stitch direction) and then turn sharply 90 degrees to meet the fabric that's being bound?  If not, it looks to me that the item being bound has to be on the right of the needle (stitch line) and the binding comes in from the left.  That couldn't be, could it?  Sorry to expose my ignorance about this.  My only experience so far with binding attachments is the one I showed earlier.

If these are indeed right-angle binders, I don't know how I'll attach them to my machine.  And they're certainly not swing-away.  ($65 Cdn each.)  I'll have to see how (and if) they fit when I get home tonight.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Do you know of Chris at Japan Sewing in Toronto?

No, I don't know that company. My last sewing experience in Toronto was about 25 years ago.