Why are bell skivers so large?

[andcoffee]

This might be a really stupid (or naive) question, but why are bell skivers so large and expensive?  As I'm sure you can tell, I don't yet own one (don't have the space for another table), but from everything I've seen they don't seem to be much more than a bell knife, a feeder, and a guide. Even with the sharpening stone, it seems like the same thing could be accomplished in a much smaller package using a modern drill motor, smaller guide arm, etc.  

Have any companies tried to redesign them with a more modern approach?  Am I missing some key element?  Thanks for any insights!

[YinTx]

15 hours ago, andcoffee said:

This might be a really stupid (or naive) question, but why are bell skivers so large and expensive?  As I'm sure you can tell, I don't yet own one (don't have the space for another table), but from everything I've seen they don't seem to be much more than a bell knife, a feeder, and a guide. Even with the sharpening stone, it seems like the same thing could be accomplished in a much smaller package using a modern drill motor, smaller guide arm, etc.  

Have any companies tried to redesign them with a more modern approach?  Am I missing some key element?  Thanks for any insights!

You are probably on to something.  Probably one of those "we've always made it that way" answers.  I'm going to venture a guess and say it could be made less than half the size, maybe smaller.

YinTx

[sbrownn]

The answer to both of the questions probably has something to do with the size of the market.  The smaller the market the less a company wants to invest in a redesign and the higher the unit cost of production that must be recouped.

[jimi]

Nippy has a smaller version.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by jimi

[andcoffee]

3 hours ago, jimi said:

Nippy has a smaller version.

 

I ran across these and I think they've got the right idea, but unfortunately that's an oscillating flat blade instead of a standard bell.  Would be cool if someone made the same thing but with a bell instead.   

[Sheilajeanne]

That's $2400 Canadian, not including shipping ( 210,820 Yen)

And is it compatible with N. American electrical plugs?

Edited April 27, 2021 by Sheilajeanne

[jimi]

2 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

That's $2400 Canadian, not including shipping ( 210,820 Yen)

And is it compatible with N. American electrical plugs?

Personally i would rather get a second hand Fortuna?? I think Japan has 100v like the US and would imagine it would have a voltage selector??

3 hours ago, andcoffee said:

I ran across these and I think they've got the right idea, but unfortunately that's an oscillating flat blade instead of a standard bell.  Would be cool if someone made the same thing but with a bell instead. 

Yep i think that would eat money these changeable blades on it, the bell would still have to be adjustable? 

[Arturomex]

Lot of good points made. Agreed that it's an older technology but a lot of the weight in a bell knife machine is there for stability. That cast iron is a good platform to hang all that other stuff from. It's rigid and it's sturdy. These machines are designed for industrial applications. I think that's reflected in the price.

Fortuna put their first bell knife skiver out the door in 1903. A lot of that old technology hasn't changed much because it works so well. Much of it was designed and refined in the 1800's and around the turn of the 20th century when leather goods and, apparently, cast iron, were big business. LOL They were designing for durability and reliability in those days. It worked then and it works now.

I think if anybody could design, build, market and profit on a bell knife or other type of skiver that was smaller and less expensive than what's on the market now, they'd be doing it. I've seen that Nippy Skimini at a trade show in Japan. It's OK but I don't think I'd buy one. It's very well built and all but just not for me. The other Nippy skivers are great. Nice, tight, well built machines that I think are well worth the asking price. I'd love to own one but for me the deal killer on bringing a Nippy to North America isn't the price tag in Japan, it's the shipping/processing/tax.

Regards,

Arturo

 

[jimi]

Yes i think you are right Arturo, someone probably would have made one by now if it was profitable. If i had the time and the money i would experiment and look for a way for sure. 

[George1520]

They are not that big. Those machines are made for factories to skive the same part over and over. 

Better question is why are leather sewing machines so big when all you need is a 

[Rahere]

You get just two out of three things in this world: speed, beauty, and low-cost. The obvious example is a high-maintenance partner. A highly-functional (beauty) cheap machine won't be fast. Which of the two are you prepared to yield for speed?

Another more recent cause of cast-iron was the USSR's economic system, where quotas were defined by weight. The result was kit far heavier than necessary, to clear the quota so the factory could switch to making something profitable.

A third is that leather-workers develop stronger muscles than tailors. So something that's frit (a wonderful Welsh word developing the idea of frightened into not man for the job) won't survive, we'll bend steel with our bare hands. As in making dies.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Rahere

[FDC]

The machine has to be rigid, it has three drives and lots of adjustability! When you don't have the space none of this matters though does it?