hand tools leather2

[Leather2]

39 minutes ago, Klara said:

By the way, as I was working with chrome-tanned leather which doesn't mark well with wing dividers I drew my stitching line with a pen (special leather marker) and ruler (and a bit freehand in the curves), and it might be my best line yet... Meaning that you could even skip the wing dividers/groover for the moment if your budget is tight.

 

Thank you, at this point I plan to get a groover.

[zuludog]

OK, here are a few comments -- I assume you've stitched fabric, even if it's just to sew on a button or mend a tear?  You've probably never thought about it, but a needle does two things -- it pierces the fabric, and passes the thread through the cloth

You can't do that with leather as it is too thick & tough so we do the sewing in two stages - make the holes with a heavier, stronger tool, then pass the threaded needle through them......firstly you must set the distance & spacing of the holes, which can be done with a chisel with a set of short blunt teeth (called a pricking iron), or a stitching wheel to mark the positions, then make the actual holes with an awl. But this is quite tricky to do properly, so now that method has been mostly replaced by chisels with longer, sharper prongs, and they both set the spacing and make the holes in one go; these tools are called stitching chisels. Then you sew with blunt needles so they do not catch on the sides of the hole

You will need to mark the line of the stitching parallel to the edge of the leather. You can use a stitching groover, which cuts a small channel, or mark the line with dividers, which is becoming more popular

Like yourself, and, I think, many other people I started leatherwork to make sheaths, and here are some recommendations based on that

Watch videos........I started with a groover but now I use dividers

Yes, Tandy have a mixed reputation, but their Craftool Diamond Stitching Chisel is as good as any to get started; a  2 prong   4mm spacing #88046-02 is all you really need to get started. Lubricate the prongs with beeswax and use a soft hammer - wood, nylon, hide - or you will damage the chisel if you use a steel hammer

Typical leather thickness for sheaths is 3mm, so a front, back, & welt will be about 9 or 10mm, and a stitching chisel may not go all the way through. Complete the holes with a diamond/saddler's/harness awl

Traditionally you bought the blade & haft and fitted them together yourself, which is a fiddly, tedious job, so get one that's already made up, like a Vergez-Blanchard from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply, or an Osborne blade and an Osborne haft with a chuck or collet. I'd say medium for the V-G or #43 for the Osborne blade. You will need to sharpen & polish the awl, see YT videos

And speaking of awls, get a round awl aka scratch awl, they'rte cheap enough. It is used, as the name suggests, to mark out a pattern, but also for general prodding & poking. It is used to temporarily make stitching holes bigger by stretching them without cutting them; then the hole closes up afterwards

Choice of thread is a subject in itself. The usual diameter of thread for most sewing is 0,6mm. Synthetic thread is stronger, doesn't rot, and you can finish the sewing by heat sealing the ends. 

Although you can use hemp, silk, or cotton, natural thread almost always means linen. As a traditional industry, linen thread manufacture has developed its own way of doing things, which is quite complicated to explain. but all you need to know is that you want size18/3 linen thread, or 432 in the French system to be about 0,6mm diameter

So why use linen at all? Some people prefer the way it feels/handles, and think the colours look better....and they prefer sewing a natural material like leather with natural thread

No, linen is not as strong, but the point is that it is strong enough. I use synthetic for belt loops on sheaths and linen or synthetic for the body of the sheath

Ritza 25 is popular thread; it has a picture of a Tiger on the label so it is often called Tiger Thread. It is expensive as you must buy into a full reel, but some suppliers, including RMLS sell shorter lengths

Fil au Chinois is very good linen thread, if a bit expensive

RMLS sell their own linen and synthetic 'Twist' thread, and both are good. It is Yue Fung thread re-labelled for RMLS

There are other makes, enough altogether to confuse most people! I'm afraid the only way to find out what you like is to try some.......but the Twist or Tiger will get you started

John James make excellent needles, but their sizing system is confusing. I don't understand it, in fact I don't think many people do, but all you need to know is that for 0,6mm thread, John James Saddlers Harness Needles code L3912 size 002 is a good choice. If you want a smaller needle such as for 0,45 to 0,55mm thread, then size 004 is OK. NOTE - make sure you get size 002, and not 2/0, which are too big

Somewhere on RMLS website there is a comparison of thread sizes, diameters, and needles

If you have any questions, contact the suppliers - after all, it is in their interests to help you

The same sort of techniques, like saddle stitch, edge beveling & burnishing, are used on most leather items, whether it is sheaths, pouches, belts, or wallets, so watch as many videos as you have the stamina for, and see what other people use, and how they do things

[zuludog]

3 hours ago, Leather2 said:

So what size needle and thread would you recommend for making a knife sheath out of 8 oz leather?

I think 8oz is about 3mm. I would use size 002 needles and 0,6mm dia thread, and stitching chisels with 4 to 4,5mm spacing

Like any craft or hobby, sooner or later you just have to start somewhere and adapt as you gain experience, sure in the knowledge that whatever you get, a couple of months later you'll wish you'd chosen something else.......welcome to the fun!.

Oh, and a couple of other things --

There are all sorts of knives for leatherwork but a Stanley/utility/boxcutter is cheap and easy to use to start with. In fact if you watch videos by Ian Atkinson you'll see that he produces excellent work and mostly uses a Stanley knife. You can re-sharpen the blades; in fact even new blades work better if they've been stropped

Make yourself a strop, it's one of the easiest items of leatherwork you'll do; there are several videos on YT. Get a proper stropping compound, like green chromium dioxide

Here are some YT Channels to look at - Geordie Leather.....Ian Atkinson.....JH Leather.....Nigel Armitage....plus many more

Edited May 28, 2021 by zuludog

[Leather2]

1 hour ago, zuludog said:

I think 8oz is about 3mm. I would use size 002 needles and 0,6mm dia thread, and stitching chisels with 4 to 4,5mm spacing

Like any craft or hobby, sooner or later you just have to start somewhere and adapt as you gain experience, sure in the knowledge that whatever you get, a couple of months later you'll wish you'd chosen something else.......welcome to the fun!.

Oh, and a couple of other things --

There are all sorts of knives for leatherwork but a Stanley/utility/boxcutter is cheap and easy to use to start with. In fact if you watch videos by Ian Atkinson you'll see that he produces excellent work and mostly uses a Stanley knife. You can re-sharpen the blades; in fact even new blades work better if they've been stropped

Make yourself a strop, it's one of the easiest items of leatherwork you'll do; there are several videos on YT. Get a proper stropping compound, like green chromium dioxide

Here are some YT Channels to look at - Geordie Leather.....Ian Atkinson.....JH Leather.....Nigel Armitage....plus many more

thank you zuludog and everyone else. Can’t wait to get started!

[mike02130]

4 hours ago, Leather2 said:

Can’t wait to get started!

Get started.  Order up.

[zuludog]

Just a suggestion........

If you haven't done so already, Search YouTube for 'beginners tools for leathercraft'; there are several videos.......although they are similar, each one is slightly different, so you can make up your own choices & variations 

[Leather2]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:12 AM, zuludog said:

Just a suggestion........

If you haven't done so already, Search YouTube for 'beginners tools for leathercraft'; there are several videos.......although they are similar, each one is slightly different, so you can make up your own choices & variations 

Thank you, watched some people and added some tools to the list.

[Spyros]

I have separated most leatherworking items into stuff that it's worth paying more, and stuff that it's not worth it.

In my opinion.

 

STUFF NOT WORTH BUYING EXPENSIVE

Chisels. Those cheap diamond shaped chisels are pretty much the same everywhere.  Look at Corter leather youtube, those ones.   Some people return to them after they've spent hundreds on Sinabroks and KS Blades, simply because it's easier to pass a thread through a chunky diamond hole than a narrow slit.   Just get the shiny cheap ones, shiny means they've been polished which means it's a little easier to pull out of the leather.

Box cutters and Xacto knock offs are as good as it gets.  Dedicated leatherworking knives work great and look great, but they require sharpening, and they require the purchase of another knife every time you need a different shape blade.  Sharpening can easily turn into a sub-hobby within a hobby, anyone tells you they have a cheap/easy/quick method of sharpening are either lying or want to sell you something.    There is very little that is cheap, easy or quick when it comes to shaping steel to exact angles with extreme accuracy, which is what sharpening is.  Avoid sharpening whenever possible, replaceable box cutter/Xacto blades are a life saver.

Cheap entry-level bevellers / edgers work just as well as expensive ones, it's a simple question of (you guessed it), sharpening.  Better to have 3-4 sizes of cheap ones than 1 expensive one.

Cheapest knock off dremel type tool is more than adequate for leatherworking applications.

Edge slickers, rulers, bone folders etc, honestly just about anything will do, just use your imagination.  Get some self adhesive rubbery tape, stick it under a ruler so it doesn't slide too much on the leather and you're good to go.

Mauls.  I have no idea why they exist.  I have one, I made it and I love it, but if I'm honest with myself any kind of rubber or timber mallet from the hardware shop would do pretty much exactly the same job.

Wool daubers. Why?  You can (and should) apply your paint/glue/gum tranc or whatever it is you're applying with a huge variety of different household items, depending on the situation.

Electric creasing machines.  You can spend $1k or you can spend $200.  In my experience you'll struggle to see a difference in every day use or in the end result.

Stitching ponies.  Super simple things, get a cheap one, and choose the big size.  Big is much more useful than good.  Again I spent a couple of days woodworking to make mine out of the best timber and brass, it's pretty much perfect, and it still does nothing more than a $80 one from ebay.

Avoid anything with fancy shiny handles.  If you find yourself afflicted with the fancy handle disease get a woodworking lathe and make your own.  Trust me it will work out cheaper in the long term.  

Anvil.  You need an anvil, but even the tiniest one that is bolted on a steady bench will do the trick 99% of the time.  Anvils are expensive, get a tiny one.

Peen hammer.  Cheap is fine, all you need is a round steel thing to bang on soft copper.

Hand press for rivets and various hardware.  Cheap or expensive, they're all pretty much the same.  I have the cheapest possible from Etsy and I couldn't be happier.  One day I will get a proper free standing machine that allows to press a rivet in the middle of a bag, but currently I don't have the space for it.

Glue.  I've tried 10 different water based brands and honestly I can't tell the diff.

Strap cutters:  They're all the same.  If you're cutting straps all day every day get a metal instead of the usual timber one, otherwise a cheap timber one is fine.

Rollers, tiny japanese woodworking planes, other weird stuff:  Redundant.

 

STUFF WORTH BUYING EXPENSIVE

- Cutting surface.  If you can, buy a huge slab of soft plastic like HDPE and bolt it on a desk.  It makes life much easier than permanently wondering if your cutting mat is actually still under your leather.

 - Punches of all shapes and sizes.  Good punches are expensive and sooner or later you'll need a tonne of them.  They don't necessarily need to be top of the line, but they need to be at least average or you'll simple end up constantly destroying and replacing them.  Buy them as you need them, avoid the cheap ones.

- Metal round rulers.  Not cheap but very handy.

- Silicone glue applicators, much easier to clean.

- Ultimately it's all about the leather and hardware.  Get the absolute best you can afford, dont waste your time with crap, never skimp on leather or hardware.

- Patterns.  Learn to make your own, but until then buy some good ones.  Good designers generally dont sell their best patters, they keep those for themselves.  But there are some good ones out there, and they do sell them more expensively.  It's worth it, get the more expensive patters, a crappy design will destroy any kind of project doesn't matter how good the materials or the execution.

- Get a good awl that matches the shape of your chisels.  Avoid fancy handles.

- Liquids.  Finishes, dyes, conditioners, oils etc.  Don't skimp, get the good stuff, it matters.  A bad/cheap finish can destroy a whole project you've been working for days on, don't risk it.

- Anything to do with stamping.  Good stamps produce a different result, and it is visible.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Spyros

[fredk]

Thats an excellent summary

Only other thing I can add for now is I like my stitching holes pliers 

These; 

They are available with four teeth and two teeth. Only really suitable for a maximum thickness of about 3.5mm tho

They make the making of a long run of stitching holes a real doodle. Not too long ago I made a book cover,  like this one, 

It took me about 5 minutes to make the stitching holes all round it.

Down side of these pliers is the stitch spacing and the size of the holes is fixed to one size. afair The teeth are about 2mm wide and 2mm spacing, gives about 6 or 7 stiches per inch, which is ok for many things

Spyros mentions an anvil. For years I've used a lump of steel that I got from somewhere. Its round, about 4 inches diameter and 2 inches thick with one square edge and one bevelled edge. Still serves me well but I also have a 3kg anvil - that is small. The anvil has a horn on it which is useful for setting ready rivets inside something

 

[Spyros]

Those stitching hole pliers that Fred mentioned are also great for another reason: it makes it 100% certain that the holes will be equal distance from the edge of the leather both on the top and the bottom.  A lot of people have a problem with that (including me when the leather is above a certain thickness).   I know a professional wallet maker who uses them exclusively for this reason.

I'm actually considering getting a pair, just not sure if the shape/size/distance of the holes will work for me.

[Klara]

While I either agree with most of what you write, @Spyros or don't have an opinion (never used wool daubers yet), I feel differently about the knives. For me, knife sharpening is one of life's essential skills, not just for leatherworking. (After nearly cutting off my thumb with a blunt (!) kitchen knife while butchering a chicken, I tried using an Xacto for cutting them open. It's not the right tool for the job.) And I just love a rounded blade... In theory I would consider knives one of the items worth spending money on, but I still bought a cheap head knife to hone my sharpening skills... (pun intended)

[Spyros]

I agree sharpening is an essential skill, I sharpen all the time.  But exactly because I sharpen all the time for woodworking and for the kitchen, I don't want to spend even more time sharpening unless I absolutely have to.  And for leatherworking I just don't have to, it's really that simple.  I sharpen the bevellers and a couple of skiving hand tools but very infrequently.

Did you really cut a chicken with an Xacto knife? 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Spyros

[chrisash]

@Spyros great post, I often think Glitz and that often used phrase " Buy once" that is thrown around every other post, is just fine for the rich to say, but often the lower cost items will do a very good job, although you will never get someone who pays $200 for a stitching chisel to agree that a $50 makes just as good slit in leather. some prefer to spend hours sharpening round knifes other are happy with a Stanley knife each to their own and financial situation

 

[Klara]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

I agree sharpening is an essential skill, I sharpen all the time.  But exactly because I sharpen all the time for woodworking and for the kitchen, I don't want to spend even more time sharpening unless I absolutely have to.  And for leatherworking I just don't have to, it's really that simple.  I sharpen the bevellers and a couple of skiving hand tools but very infrequently.

Did you really cut a chicken with an Xacto knife? 

Makes sense. As I don't sharpen knives for woodworking I can spend the time on leather knives

Regarding the chicken: I figured cutting the belly open to take out the innards would be similar to what a surgeon does and a craftknife was as close to a scalpel as I could get at the time (with dial-up internet, Amazon selling books and Aliexpress not yet in existence). Well, it was an idea and I still have all my fingers. And a hand-forged, small, pointy knife made by my friend, which I bought soon after.

By the way, would scalpels work for leather? Could I scrounge used ones from the vet? Something to find out...

 

 

 

[fredk]

1 minute ago, Klara said:

By the way, would scalpels work for leather? Could I scrounge used ones from the vet? Something to find out...

yes, but limited use. I use Swann & Morton scalpels and blades. I use them for cutting threads, trimming lace to a fine point for the brass round lacing needles, for trimming badly cut edges. . . .

No good for main cutting or cutting for tooling instead of a swivel knife 

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, chrisash said:

although you will never get someone who pays $200 for a stitching chisel to agree that a $50 makes just as good slit in leather. 

Except me probably LOL

I bought the KS Blades, absolutely nothing wrong with them, except I found in the end that cheap diamond chisels actually work better for my kind of stitching because the shape of the hole is simply more convenient.   And for some bags where I need to count holes, or I don't want to worry if I end up with layers of leather with holes facing opposite directions, I use round chisels.  Again fairly cheap because they're so easy to sharpen on a drill that's it's just not worth paying top dollar for top steel or pre-sharpened tools.  I can see KS offer diamond shaped ones now, but not when I bought mine.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Spyros

[zuludog]

3 hours ago, Klara said:

By the way, would scalpels work for leather? Could I scrounge used ones from the vet? Something to find out...

 

Have a look here, you can see the sort of things that are available

https://www.scalpelsandblades.co.uk/

Blades that have been used in operations are probably still sharp enough for leatherwork, or you can re sharpen them on a strop. You can re - sharpen disposable blades from Stanley & Xacto knives, and scalpels if you're keen enough. Sometimes they seem to work better than new, probably because you reduce the shoulder of the bevel and polish the cutting edge; in fact even new Stanley knife blades  seem to work better if they've been stropped

If you use secondhand blades from the vet or similar, sterilise them by storing them in alcohol then flaming them

I think, though, that a scalpel would be too light for anything but the thinnest leather.......still, there's only one way to find out

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by zuludog

[chrisash]

I often use my Swann Morton super tool on leather, much thicker blade than medical scalpels and the Xacto knives, so don't bend see  https://www.scalpelsandblades.co.uk/range_23_swann-morton-supatool-blades-and-handles.php

[Klara]

Thanks for this link, I see they have blades with different shapes Now I'm tempted... Pity that the UK isn't in the EU any more...