Ruined English bridle leather

[mcguyver42]

Hello, I bought a big box of 2- ½-6 oz. Wickett and Craig English Bridle leather scrap to use for practice. By mistake, it got left out in my 90 plus degree, high humidity garage for almost a month. It was now stuck together, dye leaching out of the grain side in places and splotching on the flesh side, and the fibers unraveling on the edges. I cut away the bad parts and saved 90 plus percent of it. I gave every piece a light oiling of Neatsfoot oil rubbed in with a cloth and now wondering if that was a mistake. It seems like the temper is now maybe a little softer than it was? More like a chrome tan bag leather. I cant bevel the edge on the flesh side. It just pulls the fibers up from out of the gum paste. It doesn’t seem like it is going to edge burnish very well either. So are those the normal characteristics of lighter weight English Bridle leather or is it ruined? Thanks in advance

 

[mcguyver42]

Well, the trouble that I was having was with the waste leather from the trash can. (From my shop in the garage).  I thought the damaged leather would be ok for the tests that I was making.  The salvaged leather which has been stored under heat and air for several days now with my other leather is beveling ok, and the salvage rate is really closer to 95+ percent.  I have not tried burnishing yet.  I was reading here that some people have had trouble burnishing Bridle leather, and I have seen the UK Saddlery video where he is using pearl glue and tallow to finish his edges.  That guy knows his business, and I am going to try it.  I was not familiar with pearl glue (hide glue).  I have been meaning to research what kind of glue it was that they used for wood joinery back in the old days, so there is a bonus.  I know that it is good practice to store leather inside and out of the light, but I would think leather tanned for such harsh conditions wouldn't react to the heat and humidity the way that mine did.  Any ideas on that?  I'm still not sure if oiling was a mistake on this type of leather, or what the temper of lighter weight English Bridle leather should be, but it appears that it may be usable for my practice purposes after all.  Thanks again, and any input is appreciated.

[Spyros]

I think what people refer to as "bridle" is a significantly different beast from tannery to tannery.  I mostly have experience with the Sedgwick variety and as much as I love it it does behave very differently to any leather I've used before, and yes I have discovered new and wonderful ways to destroy it LOL

I found that it bevels and burnishes great, it skives ok, but I have not found any way to finish the flesh side with anything I tried (tokonole, tan kote, resolene, oak wood conditioner, carnauba creme) so I just have to line it every time.  No liquid or cream seems to stick to the flesh side in any sort of uniform way, plus most of them seem to reveal blotches and stains that were invisible before.   The other problem I have is if I get any edge paint or edge kote on the grain side I can't just rub it off with a damp cloth, the more I rub the more it gets weaved into the grain until I have a big smudge and then it's ruined.  Same with scratches.  And it does seem particularly sensitive to water.  It's just a strange and unique leather, and although it's extremely durable as a whole, it does seem to have a thin film on the outside which holds all the colour and sheen, and that film is actually fairly fragile.

I'm sorry I don't have any experience with the W&C variety, but like I said bridle from bridle is very different, best you wait to hear from someone who knows your particular bridle very well.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Spyros

[Klara]

2 hours ago, Spyros said:

...  The other problem I have is if I get any edge paint or edge kote on the grain side I can't just rub it off with a damp cloth, the more I rub the more it gets weaved into the grain until I have a big smudge and then it's ruined.  ....

So that is a problem of the leather and not of the edge paint? Because I discovered the same thing yesterday, with some chocolate brown veg tan (not further specified) fom a French shop. I got some edge paint smudges and couldn't get them off

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

So that is a problem of the leather and not of the edge paint? Because I discovered the same thing yesterday, with some chocolate brown veg tan (not further specified) fom a French shop. I got some edge paint smudges and couldn't get them off

Well yeah it is a problem with any leather, but generally as long as I see it before it dries it cleans nicely with a damp cloth or even just my finger.   Might take a little bit of extra rubbing.  I just found that Sedgwick  bridle is particularly allergic to that extra rubbing, that's all.

[mcguyver42]

Thanks for the information on the lining.  Using the bridle leather, I am making a  badge holder with two pockets inside for my brother to wear on his belt.  I lined the main shell of the case with pig skin last night.  I may have got gotten a little heavy handed with the glue, as I seem to have a little bleed through on the pig skin, but I will see how well it holds..  If the bond fails, I think that I can fairly attribute it to the properties of the leather in general and not to my individual leather.   I had to rejuvenate my can of Barge with quite a bit of xylene yesterday, so that may be a factor.

[Rahere]

I learned my woodworking in the days before PVA: the classroom kept a pot of pearl glue on the go full-time. Rawhide and ground bone are rendered down until a resin forms, in the shape of droplets, usually with a minimal amount of water, and used as both glue and varnish.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Rahere

[mcguyver42]

Well that's interesting stuff, and that glue sure stands the test of time.  I don't remember what we used in my good ol wood shop days in the 70's, but I think it must have been something from a bottle.  So before the days when wood was painted with plastic, there were a few choices for a  finish, and you occasionally hear someone refer to varnish.  Is Pearl glue what they are referring to?  I wonder if the pearl glue they are selling today is the real deal?

[tsunkasapa]

In wood shop we used good ol' Elmer's glue. As for "varnish", there are many things that come under that heading. Plastic excepted.

[Rahere]

We tend to forget that as hide, leather protects its owner against almost anything coming its way. When its internal support mechanisma are no more, we substitute tanning and oiling and waxing, and the result can last for thousands of years. We have Egyptian and Celtic chARIOT HARNESSES TO BEAR WITHNESS. a CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ABUSE IS SURVIVABLE.

[mcguyver42]

You just described my trusty old Red Wing boots on their 3rd pair of soles now!

[mcguyver42]

Spyros, if I read your post correctly, you said that the Sedgewick English bridle leather doesn't accept any kind of a liquid finish very well on the flesh side, but that you are getting a durable glue bond when you line your items?  When you go to finish your edges you are using Edge Kote because obviously any type of dye wouldn't match, (not to mention the unpredictable).  Do you cut stitching grooves, or just let your stitches lay on top?

[Spyros]

Yep my water based glue seems to work fine.  

No I don't cut stitching grooves, I let the stitches lay on top and hammer them a bit after.

I havent had any problems with any method of edge finishing, but if it drips and I had to rub it off the surface I found the surface very sensitive to that rubbing.