Adler 169-73 Binding kit

[Freerite]

Hello everybody!

I have a DA 169-73 and want to convert this beautiful machine to a binder machine. I have been calling local dealer to try and source the parts but they couldn't really help. I found a topic on this forum where a Hong Kong shop was mentioned that produce spare parts for those machines. The problem is that I can only find parts for DA 269 (needle plate, feed dog, presser feet) and binding bracket for 869 (which they say also fits the 269). I have contacted them but they say that those parts have not been tested on a 169 machine and therefor they cannot guarantee they will fit my machine. My question is, has anybody tried swapping parts from 269 to 169 or vice versa and is this a solution to my problem? I have spoken with a few technicians locally ( I am from Bulgaria if it really matters lol) and they claim that the swap should work but I am not a 100 % convinced. Any information on the matter will be highly appreciated. 

Thank you in advance! 

Regards,

Georgi 

[Freerite]

Hello again!

I guess there are not many of you using those kind of machines or at least have not had interchanged parts between those specific machines. I have ordered the binding kit for 269 and hope it will fit my 169. I have also found an official leaflet from DA saying that "Sewing feet and attachments interchangeable with Adler 69 and 169". Wish me luck! I will keep you updated if everything works out fine because I have been searching for this information for quite some time and there are not too many resources to find that info. I hope this will help the community and fellow leather workers. 

(I hope I do not violate the rules by posting an external link for the DA leaflet)
link: https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/download-text-attachments/Vintage_Leaflets_Adler/Leaflets_Adler_class_269.pdf

Regards,

Georgi

[Michiel]

Hi georgi,

As far as i know There are a lot of Adler 69 around and there are a lot of aftermarket parts  avalible.

the Adler 169 on the otter hand is rare and it hard to fine parts

i have both machines but only  use the 69 for binding.

I would like to know Adler 269 binding kits fit 

Regards, Michiel 

 

[Freerite]

Hi Michiel, 

Than you for your reply! I want to ask you, have you ever changed the feed dog on your machine and if yes, how do you access it and also do you need to synchronise it when replacing the old with the news feed dog? I hope I don’t have any issues with mounting the feet and the binding bracket itself but I’m not really sure how to tackle the feed dog. Any information would be appreciated.

Regards, 

Georgi

[Michiel]

Yes i did Some werk on it

Here you find the service manual (which helped me with everything)

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/download-text-attachments/Vintage_Manuals_Adler/Serviceanleitung_169_DE.pdf

It is in german,

there is also an english version on that  site but that is from the singer 169 which is the same as de Adler 69 (yes that is strange)

regards, michiel 

[Freerite]

Hey Michael!

Thank you for that link, it helped my set up the binder quite easily. Everything fits nicely and I have already tested it - it works . I wanted to try and bind a car mat with faux leather but the faux leather is quite stretchy and the issue that I am having is that the stitch length results shorter than it should normally be and also the thread gets easily thorn. Could this be due to the thread tensioning? Or if there might be another issue, could you please suggest what I might adjust in order to get it running as it should? Thanks! 

[Michiel]

Looks nice

how is the stitch length when stitching on a piece of card board or  paper  (and without thread)?

[Michiel]

Is the binder synchronised (with the needle and inner foot) or fixed?

[Freerite]

Hello again,

It is a fixed binder, just a bracket that can be clipped to the needle plate and stay in place. The stitch length is normal when sewing through a cardboard. I've found out that the problem that I am having with the single fold binder is that my material ( faux leather around 1mm thick) is too tchick to get through the binder and creates too much friction which results in the machine not being able to feed through the material and pull it through the binder. This is why the stitch length gets shorter. This does not happen with a U shaped binder that does not fold the tape. I am planning on making a custom single binder with a bit more room for this kind of tape and hopefully this will resolve my problem. 

Regards, 

Georgi

[Michiel]

Good to read you solved your problem

there seems to exist moving bindersets for the adler 269 (which may fit on the 169 as well)  but they are expensive anyway

I will keep using my 69 for binding….

Edited July 8, 2021 by Michiel

[Freerite]

Hello again,

After some time fixing the binder itself in order to make it pull through the leather, now this is fixed. It pulls the leather as it should and makes the binding. But now I have another problem. The leather the slips on corners and does not get sewn. I have tried fixing this issue as well by cutting off 1 mm from the top side of the binder, it helped a little on the straight sections but continues to slip on corners. Is the problem on my side ( I am not very experienced ) or should I try and find another binder? If yes, any links would be greatly appreciated as I don't find many suppliers here locally. 

[trash treasure]

You mentioned that the binding you're using is stretchy - It may be that the tape is stretching enough to become narrower as it's pulled through the binder, and the effect is amplified at the corners.  Any way you can limit the tape stretch / tension will probably help.

Edited July 22, 2021 by trash treasure

[Freerite]

Hey Trash Treasure ( I was going to just type Trash but it would sound as an insult lol),

Thank you for your comment! I was cutting the fake leather in the wrong direction apparently, I did cut it length wise instead of width wise and now the stretch is a bit less, I guess with some more exercise from my side I will be able to get those edges right (at the moment I get the stich 1mm off the tape so at least it's getting closer to where it should be lol). Wish me luck! 
I want to ask another question which is not related to binding but I thought that it would be better to do it here than opening a new thread. I want to try and do quilted shapes with the same fake leather and  foam. The issue that I am having is that no matter what I try, the raised-relief happens on the wrong side (the foam side instead of the leather side). I tried rotating the position of the materials so that the leather is at the bottom and foam on top but same result. Should I add a third material that will pull the leather and make the quilt on the wanted side? Or is the problem in the tensioning of the thread? 
I am attaching some photos. 
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help! 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Freerite

[Freerite]

Hello again,

I have managed to get the tension right and now the machine works as it should. I found out that I will most likely not need the binding attachment because I have tried everything to make it work but the work that I want to do is almost impossible to do with the attachment and for now I will stick with doing it by hand. Firstly I sew the back side of the leather to the base and after that I flip the leather and sew close to the edge to get the finished look. This i why I would like to ask the following question: Can somebody explain to me how to make a French seam on the tape as shown on the pictures that I am going to attach? I would be really grateful as I am having a hard time doing it at the moment - the main issue that I have is that the leather gets too thick when I fold it and it cannot go through. 

Any help would be much appreciated!

Regards,
Georgi

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Freerite

[trash treasure]

Don't know how you could do it without pre-cutting it and seaming it first , and then tricky feeding through the binder.  

But maybe I'm missing something - I often do....

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by trash treasure

[Michiel]

Have you seen this video?

(and some other ones on his channel)

 

 

[Rob2613]

Hello Freerite, I am glad I found this post. I can but this machine locally (in The Netherlands) for $500,-, but it’s hard to find any information about this specific model. Can you tell me about your experience with this machine? I am making tactical gear , so the machine should be capable of sewing multiple layers of webbing. Do you think this machine is suited for heavier materials? Any more things to consider before I buy this sewing machine? Thank you for your help!

[Freerite]

Hello again!

@trash treasure 
Thanks for the suggestion! But as I said, the binder will not be used as it cannot do the job-I will be doing everything manually. 

@Michiel
Thank you for this video! I have learner a lot from Checaflo and I am really grateful for all those free videos he is uploading. This is a good way to finish it off as well. I was able to find a way to finish the binding with a 'french seam'. I mark the beginning and ending of the stripe and then start sewing 10-15cm away from where the 'french seam' would be. Then when I am near the end I let some 10-15 cm more so that I have the stripe loose and I can then take it and make the seam and then finish off sewing the stripe to the base. It looks pretty neat.

@Rob2613
Hello Rob! Welcome to the forum! I myself am new in sewing as well! I am pretty happy with the machine, it performs well and there is some information on how to tackle some of the problems you might have with it both in this forum and the internet. I have never used a sewing machine before yet I was able to install the binding kit myself, then get it off and also do the timing myself as well (which brings a question I will ask further in this post). I think you will not have any problems sewing heavier materials with this machine as it is intended for such use. I think the maximum thickness it could get is 7mm (although I have sewed thicker but it is an inconvenience both for me and the machine). My advice to you would be to take a good look at the machine before you buy it - it is a quite old machine and if it has had a rough life before you, there might be some issues you might have. There are still parts for this machine, both original and aftermarket so you should be fine but hopefully you won't need any. I think it is quite a robust machine if taken care of and not abused. 

 

Finally, I would like to ask a few questions again. In terms of thread and needle size: I tried using needle number 160 with upper thread size 20 (these are the European sizes, I am not sure the equivalent in US, sorry for that) and bottom thread size 30 and the machine does not want to take it. It gets clogged and the timing gets off. I have tried a couple of times and the result is the same. I have also had the timing go off a couple of more times with thread 30 that I usually work with. Any suggestions why this might happen? Am I doing something wrong? Any info would be greatly appreciated! 

Another question I would like to ask is how to tackle inner corners... I have tried doing cuts on the leather stripe that I bind and also cutting triangles to loosen the tension that there is in the material but I think I am missing something. Whatever I try, I get too much material in there and it gets 'wrinkly' while what I am going after is a consistent smooth edge. I know the problem is that I do not have enough experience but if anybody can guide me on how to approach this problem I would be more than happy to try out your suggestions! I am attaching some photos as well. 

ps. Sorry for the long post and for replying so late!

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Freerite

[nylonRigging]

8 hours ago, Freerite said:

Another question I would like to ask is how to tackle inner corners... I have tried doing cuts on the leather stripe that I bind and also cutting triangles to loosen the tension that there is in the material but I think I am missing something. Whatever I try, I get too much material in there and it gets 'wrinkly' while what I am going after is a consistent smooth edge. I know the problem is that I do not have enough experience but if anybody can guide me on how to approach this problem I would be more than happy to try out your suggestions! I am attaching some photos as well. 

If your 90 deg. Binder throat feeding is real close and setup to the needle makes easier .

Don't know how supple flexible the material/panel is your binding ? Or if you have internal stiffening added to panel ? . Your Pic. it Looks a little thick but manageable .
Larger inside radius Binding is lot easier . The more difficult tighter smaller ' Inside radius turns ' and Binding, is easier if you can physically grab material inside behind Inside radius turn you working on, With fingers , squeeze make a few small pleats to straighten the curve as you Seam Bind it .

If your panel and has small tight Inside Radius , And you can't manhandle and scrunch material behind the inside radius to straighten little bit . Then you need to really learn ' your technique ' and practice on some practice panels before turning a tight one on the final product .
And it does make a lot easier if your 90Deg. Binder throat is feeding tight to needle . Also maybe ? move to little 'shorter stitch per inch' just on that little inside turn might help keep tape tracking out and smoother . When stitch out of the inside radius, change SPI back to normal before the turn.
.

[nylonRigging]

So the smaller inside turn you making, with stiffer the materials use, it is difficult and can be a pain in ass sometimes . Also there a difference between compound and needle-feed setups Binding, but Basically for both the tighter you can get your setup into and adjusted properly, tight to the needle the easier for the real tight turns.

OK.. doing a .. ( real quick and dirty example here ) . after that last post just made, and just grabbed some heavy vinyl and, putting 1/4" foam in-between .
My single needle cylinder bed has binder taken off for another run n item, and I only have my 2 double-needle flatbeds stringed-up for seam Bind 3/4" type3 .

So quick couple pics. example of, 'scrunching' some small pleats behind the inside radius your turning/taping .
-

-

[Michiel]

Thread size 20 shouldnot be a problem for your machine

make some stitches by hand on a smal strip of leather without the lid right of the neelde (so you can see the upperthread pass the bobin)

my gues is ther is too less  space for the tread to pass the underside of the needle plate

maybe the bobbincase lifter is not adjusted for bigger thead (or it is missing at all)

 

[Michiel]

Or post a picture of your hook/bobbin

[Freerite]

Hello guys!

@nylonRigging 

Those are some serious skills that I can only admire to!  Thank you for the thorough explanation of the process and those little tricks that you suggested. I actually managed to get some inside curves while I still had the binding attachment attached to the machine but never managed to get is as clean as you have showed in the example. I think it's mainly because of too many layers that I have, even when sticked together I found it quite hard to make the material and binding work together well. (thickness of everything is around 6.5-7 mm. /1/4"/) That's why I decided to leave the binder for now and do the 'binding' manually in two steps. It takes more time for sure but I find it a bit easier and also manageable for me and my skills so far. Those inside turns that I showed earlier in the thread are done the second method but I found my mistakes and have improved ( a bit) although I have not taken photos.

@Michiel 
Thank you for the suggestions! I redid the timing of the machine and also rethreaded the machine. Thread 20 worked like butter even with Needle 120! (I also bought 140 because I thought that's the issue before)
I'll leave some photos of some example pieces. 

[nylonRigging]

23 hours ago, Freerite said:

@nylonRigging 

Those are some serious skills that I can only admire to!  Thank you for the thorough explanation of the process and those little tricks that you suggested. I actually managed to get some inside curves while I still had the binding attachment attached to the machine but never managed to get is as clean as you have showed in the example. I think it's mainly because of too many layers that I have, even when sticked together I found it quite hard to make the material and binding work together well. (thickness of everything is around 6.5-7 mm. /1/4"/) That's why I decided to leave the binder for now and do the 'binding' manually in two steps. It takes more time for sure but I find it a bit easier and also manageable for me and my skills so far. Those inside turns that I showed earlier in the thread are done the second method but I found my mistakes and have improved ( a bit) although I have not taken photos.

Don't know if I have any ..." skills " ??? .  I will Seem-Bind objects that I have made more than a 1-k + of same thing . I will still screw-up something Binding them that I don't like, and then pick stitches and do all over again ....LOL
I only know about, what i do a lot, and the more repetition you do with an item your making/selling, the better you will get seam-binding those one types/shapes of objects .

Seam Bind is definitely not an easy discipline to just jump into . There just are are SOooo many ways of seam binding to learn with,  flat-beds, cylinder-beds, needle-feed, compound-feed, single-needle, double-needle . Then the types of different machine Binders setups with strait or 90 deg . then there a truckload of different types of binding materials also with naturals and synthetics, all with there own problems of feeding . It's a rare guy, who even has seam-bind hands-on knowledge with even 2 or 3 of the different numerous sew trade disciplines in sewing that involve Seam Bind .
.