What type of sewing machine is appropriate for making heavy fabric bags?

[homesewnrose]

I've been making custom bags, purses and totes out of heavy cloth fabrics for the last several years and have been struggling with my two home sewing machines (Brother CS6000i and Janome HD3000). I want to upgrade to an industrial sewing machine but am a bit overwhelmed by the range of choices available. I'm looking for advice on what type or types of machines and needle systems would be best suited for working with somewhat bulky, home decor and upholstery fabrics.

Where my current machines struggle is when I sew bag straps over 7/16" thickness, gussets, and top-stitching smaller bag openings. I use a wide variety of fabrics. Most of my work today on my home sewing machines is done with #14-16 needles. I'm frequently breaking needles, and I suspect this is because the machines just aren't big enough to wrestle all the fabric through, things drag and the needle snaps. For some projects I probably need to go to a bigger needle, but #16 is the largest my machines supports.

I think a cylinder arm sewing machine may be helpful but I have no experience with one and most of the advice I've found online about cylinder arm machines is related to leather. Plus many of the cylinder arm machines I've come across use needle systems designed for leather and not upholstery fabric.

Some sewing machines I've come across that look like they may work for me are:

• Atlas AT335 (DPx17, 135x17 needle)
• Cobra Class 26 (DPx17, 135x17 needle)

Any feedback or advice would be appreciated!

Below are some examples of the types of projects my machines struggle with:

[Kwaaked]

I have a Consew 7360RH-R SS in my shop and it's meant for lightweight to heavy weight.  While I don't make jeans on it (18 oz and above), I can hem jeans just fine with it.  It takes the standard 16x287 system, and I use upholstery fabrics to make tote shopping bags on it with no problems.

(C&P) Heavyweight fabrics such as jeans can be sewn by changing the needle plate, feed dog, foot, stitch regulator, hook and needle bar. I have founds parts are pretty affordable for the machine (I have no had to replace anything, but I did look into this modification before I got my Singe #3).

You might be better off talking to an industrial machine store and talking to them for recommendations in your budget.

[homesewnrose]

4 hours ago, Kwaaked said:

I have a Consew 7360RH-R SS in my shop and it's meant for lightweight to heavy weight.  While I don't make jeans on it (18 oz and above), I can hem jeans just fine with it.  It takes the standard 16x287 system, and I use upholstery fabrics to make tote shopping bags on it with no problems.

(C&P) Heavyweight fabrics such as jeans can be sewn by changing the needle plate, feed dog, foot, stitch regulator, hook and needle bar. I have founds parts are pretty affordable for the machine (I have no had to replace anything, but I did look into this modification before I got my Singe #3).

You might be better off talking to an industrial machine store and talking to them for recommendations in your budget.

Thanks for your reply.

That looks like a great machine! And it looks like it has a lot of room to move bigger bags around. My worry is topstitching the smaller bag openings and being able to work them around the arm of the machine, that one looks a little large. 

However, the needle range looks great!

[kgg]

The Atlas AT335 ($1495) is a class 335 cylinder bed Chinese clone machine which is going to limited you to V92 as a maximum thread size while the Cobra Class 26 ($2255) which I think is a Class 341 machine with a maximum thread size of V207.  Most any cylinder bed machine can accept binder/ folder attachments if you need / want them. Based on your photo's of your trouble projects I would firstly recommend a flatbed  triple feed (needle, feed dog, pressor foot) over a cylinder machine in the upholstery class of machines like a Juki DNU-1541S ($1500 US). The price of binders and folders for the flatbeds are considerably cheaper ($15 versus $100) and easier to install. If you don't need a triple feed I would recommend a Juki DU-1181N ($1400 US) which is just a walking foot (feed dog and pressor foot).

My main machines are:

i) Juki DU-1181N (Walking Foot) which is used mainly for thinner fabrics and binding. Mostly using V92 but have used V138 on top and in the bobbin. I just completed a nice little kneeling pad (42"x 3.5" x 16") with this machine using 21 oz cotton canvas with military lapped seams and double reinforced corners using 21 oz natural canvas.

ii) Juki DNU-1541S (Triple Feed) which is used mainly for thicker items like double 3/4" hard back Sherpa. Mostly using V92 and V138 on top and in the bobbin. It hates thin stuff and has to be dumbed down to do them properly. The 1181N excels at the thinner stuff that the 1541S hates.

iii) Kobe LS-1341 (Triple Feed clone of the Juki LS -341) which is used mainly for thicker items with curved or round surfaces and binding. Mostly using V138 on top and in the bobbin.

Keep in mind there is no ONE machine that will do everything.

I would recommend you buy a brand name machine and that you take a sample of your materials or projects to a dealer and test drive a few different machines.

Buy Once, Cry Once 

kgg

[ButtonLady]

8 hours ago, Kwaaked said:

You might be better off talking to an industrial machine store and talking to them for recommendations in your budget.

51 minutes ago, kgg said:

I would recommend you buy a brand name machine and that you take a sample of your materials or projects to a dealer and test drive a few different machines.

 

I third this suggestion.  When I was ready for an industrial, I made an appointment with a dealer and showed with a bag stuffed with typical fabric.  If a dealer isn't comfortable with you test driving some machines... find another dealer.

 

 

[Kwaaked]

I bought mine online,. but the dealer had a list of service people that could come to my area and did a video call of all the fabrics I would sew with and then some...so even if one isn't nearby the can always do the zoom calls.

 

[ButtonLady]

9 hours ago, Kwaaked said:

I bought mine online,. but the dealer had a list of service people that could come to my area and did a video call of all the fabrics I would sew with and then some...so even if one isn't nearby the can always do the zoom calls.

 

This seems like a really good alternative to in-person road testing.  I forget that not everyone has the luxury of living within driving distance of a dealer (or several dealers).

[MtlBiker]

@homesewnrose - Funny, those are the exact same two machines I started with.  I liked the Brother 6000i, but it just wasn’t strong enough for what I wanted to do.  I replaced it with an HD3000 which I still have and use.  But I only use it for very light sewing, such as masks, etc. and light repairs.  It’s a surprisingly good machine.  As I got more involved with sewing, using more webbing, heavy canvas, Cordura, etc. and many layers, I found I needed something a lot more powerful.  Not knowing much about industrial machines, by luck I came across a dealer demo Consew 206RB-5 at a good price and now after more than a year using it, I LOVE IT!  That’s a flatbed machine.  I’m sewing primarily with v92 threads and use 135x17 needles for most fabric (usually size 20) and 135x16 for leather.  (I’m just getting into leather but don’t have much experience yet.)

About 6 months ago I added a cylinder bed machine, a Techsew 2750 Pro.  And that’s really a nice machine also.  But as KGG said earlier in this thread, it’s pretty hard (impossible?) to find one machine that does everything.   I use the Consew for the vast majority of my sewing but the cylinder bed machine is great for sewing the openings of bags (which I’m making mostly these days).

Now, after the few months of experience I have, if I had to choose only one machine, it would be the Consew 206RB-5 (or equivalent).  That’s the one machine I really couldn’t do without.

Best of luck with your search!

 

[Tejas]

One kgg suggestion is a Juki DNU-1541S. If that machine interests you, you might want to also consider a Juki DNU-1508N. The primary interest when I bought the 1508 was marine sewing applications. In addition to marine canvas, cushions, boat blanket which is quite heavy and some sail repair, I have also sewed leather and fabric bags.

The 1508 is top-load bobbin machine, which I prefer. The 1541 is a bottom-load bobbin machine.

[Northmount]

Moved to Leather Sewing Machines

[homesewnrose]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:28 PM, ButtonLady said:

 

I third this suggestion.  When I was ready for an industrial, I made an appointment with a dealer and showed with a bag stuffed with typical fabric.  If a dealer isn't comfortable with you test driving some machines... find another dealer.

 

 

I would love to visit a dealer and look at all the options. Sadly I am quite a distance from most and the one closest to me has very poor reviews. I am currently on a road trip and might have an option to look at a Ludwig cylinder arm machine tomorrow. I think that will give me a better idea of whether or not a cylinder arm will benefit me or not. 

[homesewnrose]

15 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

@homesewnrose - Funny, those are the exact same two machines I started with.  I liked the Brother 6000i, but it just wasn’t strong enough for what I wanted to do.  I replaced it with an HD3000 which I still have and use.  But I only use it for very light sewing, such as masks, etc. and light repairs.  It’s a surprisingly good machine.  As I got more involved with sewing, using more webbing, heavy canvas, Cordura, etc. and many layers, I found I needed something a lot more powerful.  Not knowing much about industrial machines, by luck I came across a dealer demo Consew 206RB-5 at a good price and now after more than a year using it, I LOVE IT!  That’s a flatbed machine.  I’m sewing primarily with v92 threads and use 135x17 needles for most fabric (usually size 20) and 135x16 for leather.  (I’m just getting into leather but don’t have much experience yet.)

About 6 months ago I added a cylinder bed machine, a Techsew 2750 Pro.  And that’s really a nice machine also.  But as KGG said earlier in this thread, it’s pretty hard (impossible?) to find one machine that does everything.   I use the Consew for the vast majority of my sewing but the cylinder bed machine is great for sewing the openings of bags (which I’m making mostly these days).

Now, after the few months of experience I have, if I had to choose only one machine, it would be the Consew 206RB-5 (or equivalent).  That’s the one machine I really couldn’t do without.

Best of luck with your search!

 

Too funny. 

Do you have the flat bed table attachment for your cylinder arm machine? I just see the versatility of it being so helpful! 

[Wizcrafts]

If you look at walking foot machines, be aware that the triple (compound) feed machines have an oblong hole or slot in the center of the feed dog. This allows for the moving needle to flex under load without hitting metal. The larger the hole, the more likely soft material will get pushed into it. Even if the hole in the feeder isn't a problem, the large rectangular cutout in the throat plate can trap soft material.

To avoid these issues, look at dual feed walking foot machines that have top and bottom feed with a static position needle.  The bottom feed is via dual row feed dogs and the top is via teeth on the presser foot. These machines usually have optional throat plates with larger or smaller needle holes. If you only plan to sew with thread up to #92, the largest needle will be a #19 or #20. The hole in the needle plate can be about 1.5 to 1.75 mm diameter and still clear a threaded #20 needle. In contrast, the hole in a heavy duty triple feed machine could be as much as 2.5mm wide and 4mm long.

Seeing as how you aren't sewing leather, the teeth on the feet won't be a negative option. There are plenty of dual feed walking foot machines to be found. The alternating feet will walk up and down over different levels at overlapping seams.

[MtlBiker]

8 hours ago, homesewnrose said:

Too funny. 

Do you have the flat bed table attachment for your cylinder arm machine? I just see the versatility of it being so helpful! 

Yes, with the PRO version of the Techsew 2750, the flatbed attachment came with it.  But I've never even tried to install it.  It's the kind of thing that you'd need to set up and adjust and then leave it in position rather than quickly change back and forth  (as you might have to do when working on a bag).  Since I do have a flatbed machine (the Consew 206RB-5) I really don't need to use the flatbed attachment for the Techsew.  When I'm working on a project, I might move back and forth between the cylinder bed machine and flatbed several times per hour, depending on what I'm doing.  And it would be too cumbersome if I only had the Techsew and had to install and remove the flatbed attachment.  I got the PRO version mainly for the accessories like laser guide, swing-down guide, speed reducer, etc.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Yes, with the PRO version of the Techsew 2750, the flatbed attachment came with it.  But I've never even tried to install it.  It's the kind of thing that you'd need to set up and adjust and then leave it in position rather than quickly change back and forth  (as you might have to do when working on a bag).  Since I do have a flatbed machine (the Consew 206RB-5) I really don't need to use the flatbed attachment for the Techsew.  When I'm working on a project, I might move back and forth between the cylinder bed machine and flatbed several times per hour, depending on what I'm doing.  And it would be too cumbersome if I only had the Techsew and had to install and remove the flatbed attachment.  I got the PRO version mainly for the accessories like laser guide, swing-down guide, speed reducer, etc.

I second this. I also have a Techsew, a 2700, that came with a table attachment. And, my Cowboy CB4500 came with a table attachment. I have flatbed machines that are better suited to sewing flat items and never use the table attachments. But, I am in the sewing business where time is money and customers often watch and wait while I sew their stuff. If one has plenty of time and is not in a hurry, and doesn't have customers watching and waiting, a table attachment would be a convenience as opposed to buying two machines.

[homesewnrose]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

I second this. I also have a Techsew, a 2700, that came with a table attachment. And, my Cowboy CB4500 came with a table attachment. I have flatbed machines that are better suited to sewing flat items and never use the table attachments. But, I am in the sewing business where time is money and customers often watch and wait while I sew their stuff. If one has plenty of time and is not in a hurry, and doesn't have customers watching and waiting, a table attachment would be a convenience as opposed to buying two machines.

Yes, my thought is to try out the cylinder machine with the table attachment. I am a stay at home mom with three boys and I don't get a lot of sewing time unless they are in school. I figure this would work well for now until I can afford, space and monetary wise, another machine. My Janome HD 3000 is actually a great machine that works well for my lighter weight items that I would need done on a flatbed. Space is actually my biggest limitation right now. 

[homesewnrose]

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

If you look at walking foot machines, be aware that the triple (compound) feed machines have an oblong hole or slot in the center of the feed dog. This allows for the moving needle to flex under load without hitting metal. The larger the hole, the more likely soft material will get pushed into it. Even if the hole in the feeder isn't a problem, the large rectangular cutout in the throat plate can trap soft material.

To avoid these issues, look at dual feed walking foot machines that have top and bottom feed with a static position needle.  The bottom feed is via dual row feed dogs and the top is via teeth on the presser foot. These machines usually have optional throat plates with larger or smaller needle holes. If you only plan to sew with thread up to #92, the largest needle will be a #19 or #20. The hole in the needle plate can be about 1.5 to 1.75 mm diameter and still clear a threaded #20 needle. In contrast, the hole in a heavy duty triple feed machine could be as much as 2.5mm wide and 4mm long.

Seeing as how you aren't sewing leather, the teeth on the feet won't be a negative option. There are plenty of dual feed walking foot machines to be found. The alternating feet will walk up and down over different levels at overlapping seams.

Ok, this is good to know. The cobra 26 series is a compound feed machine. I will have to do more research in this area. I most likely will only be sewing thin material on here when it is layered with thicker fabric. My outer fabrics won't be an issue, but my liners are sometimes much thinner. Do you think it will be an issue when layered, or just when sewing thinner fabrics by themselves?

Thanks for ALL your help!

[kgg]

3 hours ago, homesewnrose said:

most likely will only be sewing thin material on here when it is layered with thicker fabric. My outer fabrics won't be an issue, but my liners are sometimes much thinner. Do you think it will be an issue when layered, or just when sewing thinner fabrics by themselves?

To help you visualize the differences of how the Juki 1181N and Juki 1541S handle Light, Medium and Heavy material I here are two links which might help. Also a link that details the difference between the compound feed Juki 1541S and the Juki 1508.

i.    Juki DU-1181N (walking foot) sewing Light, Medium and Heavy fabric     www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKJuKTrjsbw

ii.   Juki DNU-1541S (compound feed) sewing Light, Medium and Heavy fabric     www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JES-2I7h3o

iii.  Juki DNU-1541S versus Juki LU1508  (both machines are compound feed)       www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvi1wYfc9A

 

kgg

 

[DonInReno]

If your current machines didn’t break needles and had more power to sew threw thicker seams would that solve your problem?

If so, you may just want to get an industrial flat bed without a walking foot.   Juki ddl 8700 machines are well under $1000 brand new.   On the used market they often sell for $400 in new condition with servo motor.   If you have more time than money, the older ddl machines like 555, 5550, 8300, 870 sew just as well as the new ones - I’d say a made in Japan ddl 555 in good shape is even better than one of the new ones that are made in China - and these crop up for under $200.   Unfortunately the older ones typically won’t have a servo unless it’s been replaced, and the older tables definitely look more dated than a nice white one from a 870 or 8700.

On the used market, if you wait for one of a average price or below, there is no reason you can’t use it for a year or two and turn around and sell it for as much as you purchased it for.

Any of these, or similar machines from other manufacturers, are a huge bang for the buck and a great way to get your feet wet.