Detroit Tools

[Rahere]

It must be said, with my economists hat on, it's insane the West has allowed price fixing to drive its own industries out of business. We had a severe reality check in the UK after the container tsunami destroyrd JIT, and extended the diy solution we found to the fentilator shortage to address other shortages.

[sbrownn]

2 hours ago, Rahere said:

It must be said, with my economists hat on, it's insane the West has allowed price fixing to drive its own industries out of business. We had a severe reality check in the UK after the container tsunami destroyrd JIT, and extended the diy solution we found to the fentilator shortage to address other shortages.

I don't think it is related as much to price fixing as it is the customers penchant for lower prices that have driven some of our own industries to move manufacturing to China.  Most industries, no matter how automated they are, require human labor and companies relocate to areas of the world where human labor is cheaper in order to be competitive with companies that have already outsourced to low cost labor areas. 

Where a item is manufactured has little relationship to its quality as most companies have access to high quality level engineering design and manufacturing technology; they build at various levels to enter certain price point market sectors and are in China because the labor costs over the entire spectrum from product development to production are cheaper.  The current level of China bashing reminds me of the "made in Japan" bashing that took place after WWII and IMHO is more propaganda  than actual reality.  The fact is that we are in a competitive world market and the "West" is going to have to find ways to compete.   

[sbrownn]

10 hours ago, Handstitched said:

Its seems that we can't get away from ' Made in China' . 

Indeed, and most people shop for a combination of quality and price point which is, IMHO, a good shopping strategy.       

"Why are foreign nations so appealing to manufacturers? Simple economics, for starters. In 2010, compensation costs (wages and benefits) for manufacturing jobs in the U.S. were $34.74 per hour on average, according to the BLS. That’s lower than in 13 northern and western European countries, but far higher than costs in China: $1.36 per hour (in 2008), based on BLS estimates. Another manufacturing powerhouse, India, has even lower hourly compensation costs than China."

I wasn't aware the labor cost differential was so high even in 2010 but at a ratio of 25:1 a person might be willing to sacrifice some quality for a significantly lower price.  Granted it wouldn't be 25 times lower but it could be 100%  lower quite easily while maintaining equal quality.  Sacrifice some quality and the price drops even more.

Given the "expected" standard of living in the US, America will have a difficult time competing labor wise with countries where a living standard 90% lower is something workers are striving for.  

 

 

[Rahere]

2 hours ago, sbrownn said:

I don't think it is related as much to price fixing as it is the customers penchant for lower prices that have driven some of our own industries to move manufacturing to China.  Most industries, no matter how automated they are, require human labor and companies relocate to areas of the world where human labor is cheaper in order to be competitive with companies that have already outsourced to low cost labor areas. 

Where a item is manufactured has little relationship to its quality as most companies have access to high quality level engineering design and manufacturing technology; they build at various levels to enter certain price point market sectors and are in China because the labor costs over the entire spectrum from product development to production are cheaper.  The current level of China bashing reminds me of the "made in Japan" bashing that took place after WWII and IMHO is more propaganda  than actual reality.  The fact is that we are in a competitive world market and the "West" is going to have to find ways to compete.   

This isn't "current level of China bashing", it's been common ground for grief at a diplomatic level for upwards of forty years now. They play on your cupidity.You cannot compete with a country which doesn't play fair with freely floating currency. The only thing you can do is slap trade barriers on them.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Rahere

[sbrownn]

26 minutes ago, Rahere said:

This isn't "current level of China bashing", it's been common ground for grief at a diplomatic level for upwards of forty years now. They play on your cupidity.You cannot compete with a country which doesn't play fair with freely floating currency. The only thing you can do is slap trade barriers on them.

I don't have any more cupidity than you do I just have a difference of opinion.  I don't think trade barriers and trade wars don't work very well.  The best solution is to find a way to compete.  If you can't compete making high labor widgets then up your educational level and find areas you can compete in.

They probably feel like you can't compete with the US inflating their "world currency" without floating their own...what's the difference?  All countries play fast and furious with their currencies.  

[sbrownn]

35 minutes ago, Rahere said:

They play on your cupidity.

You should find a way to comment without personal attacks.  I could easily say that they play on your ignorance but what's the point?  I'm sure you aren't ignorant so why assert you are just because we differ on opinions?  Make your point without personal attacks and you add credibility to your arguments.

[Rahere]

I was talking about society as a whole. It's no wonder the Internet is a scammers paradise, if this is what comes up when anyone tells it as it is. You also just joined my rogues corner.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Rahere said:

This isn't "current level of China bashing", it's been common ground for grief at a diplomatic level for upwards of forty years now. They play on your cupidity.You cannot compete with a country which doesn't play fair with freely floating currency. The only thing you can do is slap trade barriers on them.

i agree with you for once, whoda thunk it. But lets say it for what it is they treat their people like slaves  and steal the intellectual property  of every other country so they don't pay the necessary living costs or design costs that the rest of the world does. They spend their money on influencing politicians in every country. 

[Rahere]

Just to elucidate. I'm a Veteran, not because I think I qualify, but because other veterans do. I put my precious hide on the line in the 70s, and did better still in the 1990s. I have no illusions whatsoever about the Communist Animal Farm of China, and this modern fad of differentiating the people from the Government is dumb beyond belief. If a couple of billion Chinese can't sort out the mess they're making, don't come bleating to me. I am firmly of the opinion that the polluter pays, which means China's corrupt balance of payments gets wiped out to pay for the global economic damage they did, on two counts, Covid-19 and flooding the ports in containers full of goods which cannot be delivered.

[fredk]

This whole thing of manufacturers getting things made cheaper in another country, then trade tariffs imposed et cetera is nothing new. The Romans and Greeks had the same problems over 2000 years ago and it happened right thru the centuries to modern times