Bad stitches on corners

[palvim]

Hello All,

Can anyone please point me in the right direction? I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong at the corners that the stitch gets bad. I've tried to stitch over the curve without lifting the presser foot as well as by lifting the presser foot after the stitch is slightly up from all the way down. Nothing seems to work. 

[Northmount]

Don't lift the presser foot so high that it releases the top tension disks.  It's not skipping stitches, so the needle is in a good location so the hook still grabs the loop.

Having made these comments, it appears that you are losing the bottom tension rather than the top tension as the knot isn't being pulled down into the leather.  Or, are you pulling the top thread up as you are completing the stitch?

@Wizcrafts should be along to help soon.

[Samalan]

Looks to me like the needle is to big for the thread size what size needle and thread ?

[palvim]

2 hours ago, Samalan said:

Looks to me like the needle is to big for the thread size what size needle and thread ?

120 needle and 92 thread. 

[palvim]

2 hours ago, Northmount said:

Don't lift the presser foot so high that it releases the top tension disks.  It's not skipping stitches, so the needle is in a good location so the hook still grabs the loop.

Having made these comments, it appears that you are losing the bottom tension rather than the top tension as the knot isn't being pulled down into the leather.  Or, are you pulling the top thread up as you are completing the stitch?

@Wizcrafts should be along to help soon.

I've tried to stitch without lifting the presser foot and it doesn't help. Not pulling top thread at all. I have needle positioning system. So at the curve I do one stitch at a time. This system takes the needle up a tiny bit and stops. I turn the leather a bit. Next stitch. And so on. 

[Samalan]

Needle thread size sound good did the screw in the bobbin case come loose or is it adjusted correctly 

[Samalan]

Also I think set the eps in the up setting to complete the stitch when I do corners like that I hand wheel the one or two stitches to get around the corner in some cases I use very small calipers to layout stitch length and coming to an end to divide up the space and have never had a problem.

[palvim]

1 hour ago, Samalan said:

Needle thread size sound good did the screw in the bobbin case come loose or is it adjusted correctly 

I think the bobbin screw for adjusting tension is correct. As the tension on straight stitches is correct. 

[palvim]

58 minutes ago, Samalan said:

Also I think set the eps in the up setting to complete the stitch when I do corners like that I hand wheel the one or two stitches to get around the corner in some cases I use very small calipers to layout stitch length and coming to an end to divide up the space and have never had a problem.

I think it is in the setting that completes the stitch. If I press the pedal once, it'll go all the way up, then all the way down and then tiny bit up (after the hook has picked up the bobbin thread). Was that what you meant? 

[sbrownn]

I have found that my machine behaves differently when I "hand stitch" with it as opposed to powered stitching.  Generally the difference isn't as pronounced as what you are seeing but the the stitching is definitely affected by the speed at which the machine is running.  Do you have a speed reducer on your machine?  If you set up your machine to make nice stitches when it is running powered as slow as you can make it run, then there may be less difference between powered stitching and hand stitching.

Just my experience...

[RockyAussie]

I know that for an average sort of leather that needle and thread size would be recommended but........For firmer leathers sometimes the hole remains open and offers very little resistance when the knot is formed especially if the thread used is a slippery thread. I would try a 110 needle and that means you will need to increase your top tension 1 or 2 turns to make the knot form more predictably. Second thing is try adjusting your thread return spring. Although it is normal to have the spring stop going down just as the needle is about to enter the job sometimes it can be better to let it keep going down until the needle is nearly all the way down. Sometime not. Thirdly... the tension discs opening up when you lift the foot a little can look like they are not releasing and that can be not true. I ALWAYS sand back the little pin that pushes the tension springs open until I can lift the foot nearly all the way up before they open. This means it does not matter where the needle is when I lift the feet. WHY would you want the tension discs to open before you finish the job???? Many machines start letting the tension loose when the foot is only 2 or 3mm off the needle plate and that is wrong in my opinion. Always get scrap of similar weight and thickness and set up your machine before you start any new job. Make sure you can do corners without any thread lifting when you raise the foot and that your tension is perfectly centred. This is a video I have done recently which shows what I can get away with on corners -

and another using 138 (20m) thread.

Hope that helps some

[RockyAussie]

Just remembered I took a few pictures on that machine when I shortened the pin. 2 screws is all it took to get it out - Note: in the parts manual you can order three different size pins if you want. DO NOT do more than 1/2mm sand before you test as you may easily take off more than you want.

[Samalan]

15 hours ago, sbrownn said:

I have found that my machine behaves differently when I "hand stitch" with it as opposed to powered stitching.  Generally the difference isn't as pronounced as what you are seeing but the the stitching is definitely affected by the speed at which the machine is running.  Do you have a speed reducer on your machine?  If you set up your machine to make nice stitches when it is running powered as slow as you can make it run, then there may be less difference between powered stitching and hand stitching.

Just my experience...

yes that's true I go very fast and almost catch the hand  wheel and things turn out fine, I leave the eps in up pos because a lot of times I have got that extra down throw just when I don't need it LOL if I need it down I'll pull it down.  

[Samalan]

18 hours ago, palvim said:

I think it is in the setting that completes the stitch. If I press the pedal once, it'll go all the way up, then all the way down and then tiny bit up (after the hook has picked up the bobbin thread). Was that what you meant? 

Not sure what type of machine you have but the Cobra or Cowboy guys are the best and are more than willing to help. also Wizcrafts on this sight who knows everything one would need to know about that problem and I'm sure has it's on this sight somewhere sorry I could not be of more help.

[palvim]

4 hours ago, Samalan said:

Not sure what type of machine you have but the Cobra or Cowboy guys are the best and are more than willing to help. also Wizcrafts on this sight who knows everything one would need to know about that problem and I'm sure has it's on this sight somewhere sorry I could not be of more help.

It's an Adler 267-373 machine. 

[Samalan]

3 hours ago, palvim said:

It's an Adler 267-373 machine. 

wow that's a nice machine wish i could be a help to you but because it could be so many things it's beyond me can you call the dealer you got it from or ask a dealer near by maybe they could help In any case best of luck to you 

[Arturomex]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:38 PM, RockyAussie said:

Just remembered I took a few pictures on that machine when I shortened the pin. 2 screws is all it took to get it out - Note: in the parts manual you can order three different size pins if you want. DO NOT do more than 1/2mm sand before you test as you may easily take off more than you want.

So, just to be clear, Brian, there's nothing more to it than that? Slide the pin out, sand, re-install? No special slots, twists, turns or magic incantations? I'd like to try this out.

Thanks,

Arturo

[Dream4est]

On 8/20/2021 at 12:58 PM, palvim said:

I've tried to stitch without lifting the presser foot and it doesn't help. Not pulling top thread at all. I have needle positioning system. So at the curve I do one stitch at a time. This system takes the needle up a tiny bit and stops. I turn the leather a bit. Next stitch. And so on. 

Turn off any auto features like needle position so in the corner you have to do it manually. It could be the positioner goofing up the two corner stitches. Just my .02 I have seen on my machines some issues with positioner in corners occasionally.

[RockyAussie]

16 hours ago, Arturomex said:

So, just to be clear, Brian, there's nothing more to it than that? Slide the pin out, sand, re-install? No special slots, twists, turns or magic incantations? I'd like to try this out.

Thanks,

Arturo

Most machines it is that simple but good to check out a parts list diagram on the particular machine just in case. Its not really all that scary to have a look anyway. Caution...do not over sand the length as they do not move very far.

The OP in this case has a Adler 267-373 I believe and if you check this video out on one of these you can see that the tension discs open every turn he does and at the 1min 20 sec mark you can see the stitch miss when he does a sharp corner. Dunno maybe I'm wrong but I don't get that problem myself. On soft leather as used in this video it is rare to see the knot show at the top on a corner but missing is another thing. That is where a bigger needle helps as it allows the stretchy leather to clear the thread better in the needle slot and allow the loop to form better for the hook to catch it.

 

[Arturomex]

Thanks, Brian. I have the Techsew 4800 so everything in your photos looks familiar.

Apologies, @palvim for derailing your thread. I hope you get things sorted out.

Regards,

Arturo