Hermann Oak Leather Thickness

[ftnpenlvr]

Hey all

I got some samples of Hermann Oak samples from Weaver, last month, in a range of thicknesses.  Finally broke out my calipers out of curiosity, and started measuring the thicknesses.  According to Tandy, thicknesses SHOULD be:

2/3 oz = 0.8-1.2mm; the sample was 1.4 - so, a little thicker.
3/4 oz = 1.2-1.6mm; the sample was 1.5mm - top end of range.
4/5 oz = 1.6-2.0mm; the sample was 1.9mm - top end of range.
5/6 oz = 2.0-2.4mm; the sample was 2.5 - just over range, and I may have gotten a particularly thick spot.
6/7 oz = 2.4-2.8mm; the sample was 2.8mm - top end of range.
7/8 oz = 2.8-3.2mm; the sample was 3.1mm - top end of range.
8/9 oz = 3.2-3.6mm; the sample was 3.6mm - top end of range.
9/10 oz = 3.6-4.0mm; the sample was 4.0mm - top end of range.
10/11 oz = 4.0-4.4mm; the sample was 3.5mm - well below the range, thinner than the 8/9 oz range.

So, I definitely understand that there are ranges of weights/thicknesses, and that guide should be regarded as "-ish" rather than hard and fast rules.  I was curious, if others have seen that same kind of variability in weight:thickness ratios.  Understanding that the butt end is more dense/durable, maybe the 10/11 oz came from that end and so, while thinner, was the right "weight."  

That also got me wondering whether folks rely more on the weight than the thickness when designing a new project; the thickness might matter more when measuring a project with 90-degree joints, as it impacts your cuts, but, might not have so much to do with the project from a "sheath vs holster" perspective.

I'm still pretty new to all this, so, I certainly appreciate any insight!

[tsunkasapa]

First, I don't do anything Metric. But when I get ready to start a project I just look at the leather, judge it's firmness, or lack of, and choose it that way. Those numbers really have no meaning to me. I suppose if I ordered leather sight unseen it might be a guideline.

[JLSleather]

4 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

I just look at the leather, judge it's firmness, or lack of, and choose it that way. ...if I ordered leather sight unseen it might be a guideline.

This.  Exactly this.

If I'm making a binder, cover, or flat goods, the exact weight isn't critical - I'm looking for firmness and look.

If I'm making a case or other item that has to FIT something, I'm not worried about half an "ounce", but those times where it matters ... if it 'has to be' 8 oz thick, and your 8 isn't 8, then you might 'make' an 8 with a 5 oz that was a bit "heavy" and a 3 oz that was a bit "light" laminated together.

36 minutes ago, ftnpenlvr said:

Hermann Oak samples from Weaver

I would not go this route.  I have ordered leather from Weaver exactly ONCE - and not again since.

[mrwatch]

I might ask how tight you you measure with your venier slide or dial calipers? Just barely or snug. Same for a snap gage or regular machinist caliper. If mail ordering you will need the proper measurement. I feel a slight variation is normal.  

[fredk]

2 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

. . . But when I get ready to start a project I just look at the leather, judge it's firmness, or lack of, and choose it that way. 

 

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

 . . .  If I'm making a binder, cover, or flat goods, the exact weight isn't critical - I'm looking for firmness and look.

If I'm making a case or other item that has to FIT something, I'm not worried about half an "ounce", but those times where it matters ... if it 'has to be' 8 oz thick, and your 8 isn't 8, then you might 'make' an 8 with a 5 oz that was a bit "heavy" and a 3 oz that was a bit "light" laminated together.

I order from my supplier by mm thickness, ( cos thats how its done here) but in a general way, ie I'll ask them for 20 sq feet of ( x type leather) about 1.6 mm thick and they send me some about that thickness. I trust them and I've never measured any leather supplied to check it

 

7 minutes ago, mrwatch said:

I might ask how tight you you measure with your venier slide or dial calipers? Just barely or snug. Same for a snap gage or regular machinist caliper. If mail ordering you will need the proper measurement. I feel a slight variation is normal.  

As for measuring thickness I use one of these;

I just press the ram down until its touching the leather softly. If I were to lock it in place the gauge should just slide off the leather. I rarely use it tho. I just judge the thickness for a job as - 'that will do nicely'

Being a natural product, which can absorb atmospheric moisture, or dry out there will be variations according to how dry the leather might be.

Let me explain this; recently I made something and my son thought it was very thin leather compared to another similar item which had been made with the exact same leather. I got out my gauge and measured the two items and the raw leather. The raw leather was about 2.2mm thick, Item 1 was about 2mm thick and Item 2 was 1.6mm thick.

Item 1 had been finished with water based dyes and sealants

Item 2 had been finished with spirit based dyes and sealants

The water based dyes had maintained most of the natural moisture content of the leather but the spirit dyes had driven out that moisture resulting in the leather being less bulky

[LatigoAmigo]

2 hours ago, ftnpenlvr said:

I was curious, if others have seen that same kind of variability in weight:thickness ratios.  Understanding that the butt end is more dense/durable, maybe the 10/11 oz came from that end and so, while thinner, was the right "weight."  

If you measure a whole hide, or even a side, you'll find that there is quite a bit of variation not only in the thickness of the leather but also in its firmness. In this country the thickness of the leather is referred to as "weight" and is measured in "ounces." The firmness, or temper of the leather, varies within the hide, is firmer in the shoulder area and along the back, and is softer around the belly. 

Here is a conversion chart that I refer to often:

[ftnpenlvr]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:29 PM, fredk said:

 

I order from my supplier by mm thickness, ( cos thats how its done here) but in a general way, ie I'll ask them for 20 sq feet of ( x type leather) about 1.6 mm thick and they send me some about that thickness. I trust them and I've never measured any leather supplied to check it

 

As for measuring thickness I use one of these;

I just press the ram down until its touching the leather softly. If I were to lock it in place the gauge should just slide off the leather. I rarely use it tho. I just judge the thickness for a job as - 'that will do nicely'

Being a natural product, which can absorb atmospheric moisture, or dry out there will be variations according to how dry the leather might be.

Let me explain this; recently I made something and my son thought it was very thin leather compared to another similar item which had been made with the exact same leather. I got out my gauge and measured the two items and the raw leather. The raw leather was about 2.2mm thick, Item 1 was about 2mm thick and Item 2 was 1.6mm thick.

Item 1 had been finished with water based dyes and sealants

Item 2 had been finished with spirit based dyes and sealants

The water based dyes had maintained most of the natural moisture content of the leather but the spirit dyes had driven out that moisture resulting in the leather being less bulky

The finish is definitely a new one, but, makes a lot of sense to me.  Thanks!

[ftnpenlvr]

Thanks for the replies, all!  

I consistently closed my calipers "just to snug", so that the leather would easily slide out afterwards.  The ones that were super close to the expected thickness, I wouldn't stress over (and, honestly, almost everything I have done, to date, has been on 5/6-oz leather, excepting a couple of belts that were on ~10-oz).

The one that really surprised me, though, was how thin the 10/11-oz sample was - thinner than the 8/9 oz.  Mostly, that made me wonder if somebody grabbed the wrong piece of leather, but, it got me wondering if others had had similar experiences.  

I very much agree with what others have said above - if it feels like the right thickness to do what you want to do, go for it.  :-)

[fredk]

6 minutes ago, ftnpenlvr said:

The one that really surprised me, though, was how thin the 10/11-oz sample was - thinner than the 8/9 oz.  Mostly, that made me wonder if somebody grabbed the wrong piece of leather, but, it got me wondering if others had had similar experiences.  

yes, the one and only time I went into a Tandy to buy supplies. I thought I'd get some 4mm leather - 10 ounce to you. The chap there pulled some off the rack. I thought it looked a bit thin, the chap argued, it was 4 mm cos it came off that rack. I made him find a gauge and when we measured the hides they were all 2.8 to 3mm - 7 to 8 oz. And so were all on the rack. Someone had put the thinner leather there as their main rack was full. The shop did not have any 4mm or any thicker.