Old Juki or new clone?

[andcoffee]

I've been looking around for a walking-foot machine and I've noticed that I could get a new Atlas Levy clone for about the same price as an older (but supposedly well-maintained) Juki of the same model.  

Some background on my uses: 

Hobbyist who doesn't do high volume at all.  Will be used exclusively with leather.  Not in a rush to buy.  Currently own a Cobra post-bed machine that I'm happy with.  

Which option would you guys usually recommend?  I don't have any experience with Atlas Levy, but my Cobra seems to be working well for my needs.  

Thanks!

[kgg]

21 minutes ago, andcoffee said:

I've been looking around for a walking-foot machine

Some additional questions I think need to be answered before anyone would go out on a limb and give a definite answer. Which Juki model versus which Atlas Levy model? Are they just walking foot machines or are they compound feed machines. How thick of material (leather or fabric) do you need / want to sew and what thread would you be planning on using? Cost of used Juki and any pictures.

On the surface I would first choose a good used Juki over a similar new clone. That said I did purchase a new clone LS-1341as a stop gap until I can find a good used Juki 441. When I purchased my other Juki's (1181N and 1541S) I bought them new never had any problems right out of the box. Personally I like the quality of the Juki machines and I think parts / accessories will be always available.

kgg

 

[andcoffee]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Some additional questions I think need to be answered before anyone would go out on a limb and give a definite answer. Which Juki model versus which Atlas Levy model? Are they just walking foot machines or are they compound feed machines. How thick of material (leather or fabric) do you need / want to sew and what thread would you be planning on using? Cost of used Juki and any pictures.

On the surface I would first choose a good used Juki over a similar new clone. That said I did purchase a new clone LS-1341as a stop gap until I can find a good used Juki 441. When I purchased my other Juki's (1181N and 1541S) I bought them new never had any problems right out of the box. Personally I like the quality of the Juki machines and I think parts / accessories will be always available.

kgg

 

Looking at the Juki 341 and the equivalent Atlas version.  Compound feed for various thicknesses of leather.  I don't do holsters or anything that thick, but I do like this machine as something that can go from smaller goods up heavier leathers.  

Edited September 7, 2021 by andcoffee

[kgg]

6 hours ago, andcoffee said:

Looking at the Juki 341 and the equivalent Atlas version. 

The Juki 341 (couldn't find it on their website) is an older version of the newer Juki LS-1341. The cost of a new Juki LS-1341 is probably north of $3500 US. The Atlas version appears to be a tweeted clone of the Juki LS-341 at ~ $1900 US. The cost difference between the clone and a new Juki is substantial. In Ontario, Canada a used Juki LS-1341 complete (table/servo motor) from a dealer will run ~ $1600 CAD (~$1275 US) while a new similar new clone model will cost  ~$2500 and up, depending on the dealer.

Still it depends on the price, the dealer reputation, how close the dealer is to your location, how comfortable you are buying and possibly doing repairs on a used machine versus a new machine and condition of the Juki. When I bought the LS-1341 clone I actually went to the dealer and was planning on buying a new Juki but the cost difference was substantial. I said I'd would give the clone a try. I have had it for over a year with no problems, it does do the job but it is no Juki.

The best advice I can give is go and test run both machines with your stuff and thread. If there are other dealers in your area with clones and used machines check them out as well.

kgg

[Cumberland Highpower]

I would personally never buy any a Chinese clone of anything.   A Genuine Juki is, overall a superior machine.

From a technical standpoint, the Chinese are a master of "Package Polish"  making a product look good on the shelf.  They often do not hold the tolerances of a Japanese or Western made machine as well as often times skipping good heat treatment on critical parts in an effort to keep cost low.

Sometimes a "clone" isn't an identical twin.  There are times a couple, a few, or many parts are made to a different spec and cannot be interchanged with a part from another "clone' or the genuine article.  What will you do in 10 years parts wise, when " Peoples' Revolutionary Golden Dog Fart Machinery Plant no. 112" closes or stops making sewing machines?

Yes, for many a Chinese clone can last many years.   If nothing else, buy the real article for the pride in ownership. I find allot of irony, borderline hypocrisy here on this forum when it comes to Chinese machines....Many are all about made local, made in USA, made in Canada, Made in England, support the small shops/etc and at first chance to save a buck, run out and buy a Chinese machine. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

A Genuine Juki is, overall a superior machine.

I whole heartily agree. When a China clone is put side by side with a Juki there is a very quick realization why there is a difference.

 

1 hour ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

" Peoples' Revolutionary Golden Dog Fart Machinery Plant no. 112"

That just cracked me up. Thanks for the chuckle.

kgg

[nylonRigging]

Who can tell me ??? , Is there any Sew machine brand name in 2021 , that does not subcontract some or all parts from China ?

Juki is a solid machine . And the last New Juki I bought say's ..  Made In China  .....LOL  ,  But It is all about QC and the quality of part Spec. by the manufacture, even body finish and outer coating . Even so, I have a couple clones that run like Champs and most likely will outlive me, to sold to someone else and used for years.

.

Edited September 8, 2021 by nylonRigging

[Cumberland Highpower]

How about Seiko? I'm thinking to order a new one myself.   A few misc parts (screws etc) can't be avoided. 

[Matt S]

13 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

I would personally never buy any a Chinese clone of anything.   A Genuine Juki is, overall a superior machine.

From a technical standpoint, the Chinese are a master of "Package Polish"  making a product look good on the shelf.  They often do not hold the tolerances of a Japanese or Western made machine as well as often times skipping good heat treatment on critical parts in an effort to keep cost low.

Sometimes a "clone" isn't an identical twin.  There are times a couple, a few, or many parts are made to a different spec and cannot be interchanged with a part from another "clone' or the genuine article.  What will you do in 10 years parts wise, when " Peoples' Revolutionary Golden Dog Fart Machinery Plant no. 112" closes or stops making sewing machines?

Yes, for many a Chinese clone can last many years.   If nothing else, buy the real article for the pride in ownership.

I've had Chinese sewing machines before. The unreliability, the broken parts, the spongey castings, the crumbling screwheads, the lack of compatibility with nearly-but-not-quite fitting parts, all made them less of a deal than they seemed. I admit that there are varying qualities. Some may approach the quality of a "real deal" "premium" manufacturer. I doubt that many do, or that any equal them.

 

Quote

I find allot of irony, borderline hypocrisy here on this forum when it comes to Chinese machines....Many are all about made local, made in USA, made in Canada, Made in England, support the small shops/etc and at first chance to save a buck, run out and buy a Chinese machine. 

I thought I was the only one who saw the irony! The tooled and hand painted "screaming eagle carrying a stars and stripes 1911 holster"  sewn on a Chinese 441 clone. The wallet made from ox hide pit tanned for 14 months in English oak bark sewn on a "Wung Hung Lo" 335-a-like. The "local hand tool artisan" marking his stitch holes with a $15 copy of a Blanchard pricking iron.

I buy Chinese-built tools and machinery only when there is no other option or I simply can't afford anything better. I'm rarely impressed with the quality, and I'm always disappointed sending yet more trade to that slave empire.
 

50 minutes ago, nylonRigging said:

Who can tell me ??? , Is there any Sew machine brand name in 2021 , that does not subcontract some or all parts from China ?

Juki is a solid machine . And the last New Juki I bought say's ..  Made In China  .....LOL  ,  But It is all about QC and the quality of part Spec. by the manufacture, even body finish and outer coating . Even so, I have a couple clones that run like Champs and most likely will outlive me, to sold to someone else and used for years.

.

Even Juki now?  

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Even Juki now?

Some of the newer Juki's are made in China and some in Vietnam. But it depends on the model, the last I heard the Juki 1541S were still being made in Japan as was the 441. Quality remains to be seen on the non Japanese manufactured models.

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

I buy Chinese-built tools and machinery only when there is no other option or I simply can't afford anything better. I'm rarely impressed with the quality, and I'm always disappointed sending yet more trade to that slave empire.

I agree.

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

"Wung Hung Lo" 335-a-like

That one gave me another chuckle.

Clone is an identical copy, Forgery is just a look-a-like copy.

kgg