Inside Bevel on a Fortuna 50 Skiver... is that my problem?

[WeekendHobby]

Hoping that someone out there will have some advice for me!

I recently purchased a Fortuna Simplex and have been working to learn how to use it. I'm having a hard time getting consistency. It has a tendency to do OK then, suddenly, take a much deeper cut.

I've read in the manual that the inside bevel on the bell knife is supposed to be "minimal" and I appear to have an inside bevel that is almost as strong as the exterior bevel and I can't figure out why there is even a bevel there at all as I am demurring with the stone and not letting my emory wheel touch the knife at all.

The photo is not all that I hoped for but it's hard to get a picture in there!

Any experience that anyone can share would really be appreciated.

 

Tom

[mike02130]

Did you buy this new or used?  The deburring rod is just for deburring, not sharpening and especially not beveling.  If it were mine, I would grind the blade back to get past that inner bevel--or at least most of it--then deburr it properly.  That would be quite a lot of grinding.  Don't over heat the blade.  Hell, maybe you're better off buying a new blade?  Of course, I may not know what I'm talking about?

[Cumberland Highpower]

Skivers are notoriously fickle machines.....But once you get yours figured out you'll be ok.

I never owned a Fortuna like that one, must be real old?   I have FAV skivers that use a Fortuna type one piece bell.   Yes that's a pretty heavy bevel inside, but deep down I wonder if it's causing you that much of a problem?  (Might make the cut harder to make in leather, considering your bevel is more "blunt" than it should be.

I used to have a USMC skiver that was a century old and had a large bell thatappears to take the same type of knife as yours.    It was a great machine.  I'd say your best bet would be to take the thin steel "blade" out of the machine and reverse it.  Then, grind your new bevel with the machines internal grinder and lightly deburr the inside of the knife lightly.  The blade "clamps" down in what's essentially a large bell shaped collet.    Be sure to "bunt" the razor sharp edge on your blade before you take it out, you don't want to get cut!

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[RockyAussie]

There should be NO inside bevel. After a good sharpen you need to dress away the burred edge and then I normally give a little light extra sharpen. If you are doing some soft stuff then get a little veg leather and feed it through VERY slow to in a way strop the edge. Any bevel inside the bell will make the leather want to bite in and go too deep. Make sure the distance of the bell is not Too close or too far to the edge of the foot. Thick leathers take the bell back a bit and thin keep it a bit closer if needed. For light leathers try backing off the spring pressure with the knob at the left rear at the very back. ( get plenty of scrap and experiment)

[WeekendHobby]

9 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

There should be NO inside bevel.

...

Any bevel inside the bell will make the leather want to bite in and go too deep. 

RockyAussie - that is exactly what I needed to know and seems to be the problem that I am having!

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. Some updates based on things that have been said:

• I bought the machine used and the inner bevel was something that I noticed only when I was having trouble getting it to work consistently.
• mike02130, I did NOT create the bevel with the dressing tool :-) I'd guess that the previous owner had the emery wheel in there too high and it ground out the bevel
• I don't think it's possible to reverse the blade - it's a single pice and the non-cutting side is where the bolt holes are to attach it
• The blade is pretty short so I think that I'll buy a new blade AND try grinding this one down while I wait for it to get here
• I'll be very careful with the heat and take the time to grind it slowly in stages
• Good advice on blunting the blade - thanks Cumberland Highpower!

It might take a week or so till I can get to it (since this is only a Weekend Hobby :-) but I'll report back when I'm done.

 

Really appreciate all the help!

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, WeekendHobby said:

RockyAussie - that is exactly what I needed to know and seems to be the problem that I am having!

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. Some updates based on things that have been said:

• I bought the machine used and the inner bevel was something that I noticed only when I was having trouble getting it to work consistently.
• mike02130, I did NOT create the bevel with the dressing tool :-) I'd guess that the previous owner had the emery wheel in there too high and it ground out the bevel
• I don't think it's possible to reverse the blade - it's a single pice and the non-cutting side is where the bolt holes are to attach it
• The blade is pretty short so I think that I'll buy a new blade AND try grinding this one down while I wait for it to get here
• I'll be very careful with the heat and take the time to grind it slowly in stages
• Good advice on blunting the blade - thanks Cumberland Highpower!

It might take a week or so till I can get to it (since this is only a Weekend Hobby :-) but I'll report back when I'm done.

 

Really appreciate all the help!

Once the bell gets down to about an inch long I replace them. It may pay to replace the sharpening stone at the same time. When the sharpening stone wears down too much you get a short blunt sharpen on the bell and then it does not feed the leather through very well. Pink stone is normally the best. When sharpening the blade make sure you keep getting plenty of sparks without too much pressure. When the sparks drop off you need to clean the stone again. When the bell is nearly sharp back off the sharpening to just touching for about a minute to get it a little smoother on the edge. Make sure the brass deflector sits about 1/2 to 5/8" in away from the bell edge. Too far in and it won't get rid of the scrap well and too close will foul on the feed stone. YES the previous operator had let the feed stone bevel inside the bell. (Good thing it wasn't a steel feed wheel or rubber one either) 

[WeekendHobby]

14 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Once the bell gets down to about an inch long I replace them. It may pay to replace the sharpening stone at the same time. When the sharpening stone wears down too much you get a short blunt sharpen on the bell and then it does not feed the leather through very well. Pink stone is normally the best. When sharpening the blade make sure you keep getting plenty of sparks without too much pressure. When the sparks drop off you need to clean the stone again. When the bell is nearly sharp back off the sharpening to just touching for about a minute to get it a little smoother on the edge. Make sure the brass deflector sits about 1/2 to 5/8" in away from the bell edge. Too far in and it won't get rid of the scrap well and too close will foul on the feed stone. YES the previous operator had let the feed stone bevel inside the bell. (Good thing it wasn't a steel feed wheel or rubber one either) 

I'm curious if anyone has advice related to a replacement blade. One one site see 3 different blades ranging in price from $35 to $65. And those are all made in italy. Is there any difference in the steel, the edge, the cut, etc. between a Fortuna blade, a Fratelli blade, and any of the other choices out there on the market?

If there is a "best" blade, which one, and why?

PS. I started grinding yesterday. Did a fairly aggressive grind every time I could take a break from work. Managed to get through about 1/2 of the depth of the bevel so I'm hoping that I'll be done with this experiment by the end of the weekend after all.

[RockyAussie]

I have found the original Fortuna bells seem to sharpen and hold the edge longer than the atom ones. Last maybe 2 times longer but the croc I do is pretty nasty on blades sometimes.

[WeekendHobby]

Update:

After removing the bevel from the knife the skiver is behaving much more like the videos I see online.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help!