williaty Report post Posted October 11, 2021 I picked up several compound feed straight stitch machines easily from Craigslist here in Ohio but I've been looking for a year for a zig-zag machine and haven't seen a single one come up for sale at all. Are zig-zag machines exceptionally rare or do they tend to trade hands via some other method than Craigslist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylonRigging Report post Posted October 11, 2021 The Craiglist here, 'industrial zigzags' and combo zigzag/straight-stitch . There been a few of them in this area popup steady . Industrial zigzags, They definitely not as prevalent as straight-stitch industrial. My area here I guesstimate it about 2% out of a hundred straight-stitch machines for sale are zigzag . Never seeing any in your AO is a little weird . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted October 11, 2021 Yes, they are exceptionally hard to find, especially used. Compound feed plus zig-zag is also exceptionally tricky from an engineering standpoint. Most zig-zag machines are bottom-only feed mechanisms, very few have bottom + top feed. If you want bottom+top+needle feed plus zig zag, then I’m not even sure such a machine exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
williaty Report post Posted October 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Uwe said: Yes, they are exceptionally hard to find, especially used. Compound feed plus zig-zag is also exceptionally tricky from an engineering standpoint. Most zig-zag machines are bottom-only feed mechanisms, very few have bottom + top feed. If you want bottom+top+needle feed plus zig zag, then I’m not even sure such a machine exists. Oh, at this point I'd settle for a drop feed only z-z machine. Any more advanced feeding that that would be awesome but not required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted October 12, 2021 3 hours ago, williaty said: Oh, at this point I'd settle for a drop feed only z-z machine. Any more advanced feeding that that would be awesome but not required. Sailrite makes a portable zig-zag walking foot machine with top and bottom feed. Some of our members have and use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
williaty Report post Posted October 13, 2021 18 hours ago, Wizcrafts said: Sailrite makes a portable zig-zag walking foot machine with top and bottom feed. Some of our members have and use it. Yeah I've used the straight stitch version of it under the Tandy label. I have to say I am very, very much not a fan of the weird placement of the presser foot lift lever. I'd *prefer* a larger harp space too though that's something I'd compromise on if I had to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylonRigging Report post Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) On 10/11/2021 at 7:23 PM, williaty said: Oh, at this point I'd settle for a drop feed only z-z machine. Any more advanced feeding that that would be awesome but not required. The zigZags do pop-up here off and on regularly , and Speak of the Devil ... LOL.HAhahaha . and 1st thing I see when I clik on the Craiglist to take a quick browse .. and I see what you Jonesing For . A nice clean little ( 107w5 ) ... . . But it killing me a little to, as that machine model was the very 1st machine I bought to learn to sew . https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/for/d/vancouver-singer-industrial-sewing/7393692542.html . EDIT ADD : Craiglist will tease you.. cant beat it .. Just noticed this popup today .. If you in the N.W. , ( OR. WA. area ?? ) IF wanting a good buy on a , 40" Longarm ? Singer 144W302 compound feed . This machine Head is just begging for a fresh new table set-up . Looks priced to move @ 1500-$ .. or Best Offer . https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bfs/d/port-hadlock-singer-144w302-long-arm/7390184967.html . Edited October 14, 2021 by nylonRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trash treasure Report post Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) I see Singer 20U's pop up for sale on FB Marketplace pretty often, and often pretty cheap - A decent machine, if you don't need something really heavy duty. Better to look for a BLUE one, though, as those are made in Japan - The Gold ones are Chinese manufacture, I believe. Edited October 14, 2021 by trash treasure Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
williaty Report post Posted October 15, 2021 15 hours ago, trash treasure said: I see Singer 20U's pop up for sale on FB Marketplace pretty often, and often pretty cheap - A decent machine, if you don't need something really heavy duty. Better to look for a BLUE one, though, as those are made in Japan - The Gold ones are Chinese manufacture, I believe. I thought the 20Us were straight stitch. Were there submodels that were ZZ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted October 15, 2021 1 hour ago, williaty said: I thought the 20Us were straight stitch. Were there submodels that were ZZ? The Singer 20 series are zig-zag machines that can be used as straight stitch by zeroing the side throw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trash treasure Report post Posted October 15, 2021 As Wiz said, the 20U is an all purpose machine - The one we have has proved excellent for many years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted October 16, 2021 19 hours ago, Wizcrafts said: The Singer 20 series are zig-zag machines that can be used as straight stitch by zeroing the side throw. Also parts were available for a straight stitch needle plate and feed dog. I picked a set up about 5 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
williaty Report post Posted October 16, 2021 Hmm, sounds like I need to keep an eye out for one. They previous ones I saw before I started looking for a ZZ machine went pretty cheaply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trash treasure Report post Posted October 16, 2021 One other thing about the 20U - They were never really factory machines, being sold mainly for tailoring use, so you usually find them in pretty nice shape, and not worn out from 3 shift, 24 / 7 type use and abuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted October 16, 2021 On 10/14/2021 at 10:42 PM, williaty said: Better to look for a BLUE one, though, as those are made in Japan - The Gold ones are Chinese manufacture, I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trash treasure Report post Posted October 16, 2021 HA ! Just goes to show - You can't believe everything you read ;~) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gymnast Report post Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) I have read about the Singer 20U, that it characterized as a 3/4 size machine. So I guess the harp area right of needle is less than a Pfaff 138. I Know that the Pfaff 130 got about 205 mm right of needle as a full size domestic sewing machine. I saw a sailor forum with a guy, that had got a used Dürkopp Adler 525i for about $1500. https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/products/shoes_FB_ZZ/525i-811.html https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/public/525i/B_52Xi_EN.pdf It can be configured 1:1 with motor, and then the speed is 3500 stitches/min. But 1:2 with motor is also possible to half speed and more torque, and I guess this will be most applicable here. It got a harp area of 265 mm. So I guess this machine is both for high speed and somewhat heavier work. I am impressed by the possible very low speed of the servo motor of only 10 RPM. It is excellent. Normally I have seen the minimum speed of brushless servo motors to be at least 100 RPM, but Dürkopp Adler may have an extra low speed feature here, and as far as I can see, it is a brushless type motor. The speed specification can be found at page 15 here: https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/public/525i/0791_523901.pdf Edited October 18, 2021 by Gymnast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted October 23, 2021 Flatbed zz machines are used in making male suits. This is lucrative business, so they are pricey, even used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 Report post Posted November 2, 2021 I'm in SW Michigan. Singer 20u's are all around us. IMHO ONLY buy a blue or tan Singer. Chinese made clones branded singer, consew and a dozen other brands are available as cheap as $300 for the head. I have several zig zag machines. All but 2 were bought locally I have 3 20u's, 2 Pfaff 238's, 4 Bernina 217(n),s including one 12m wide, 2 consew 199r-2a's that are double through zig zags. As cheap as $300 amd one of the bernina's with a cam drive for various stitches was $750. Also an old singer not mentioned above that I can't remember the model number if. It doesn't tension release sp anything you can compress and stuff under the 1/2 clearance foot you can sew. I also have a sailrite zig zag because it was cheap but have never used it. All except the sailrite are dropfeed only. But I know a parachute container manufacturer that uses a 20u to close the corner of the rig. Seam includes 4 layers of cordura and or parapack and 4 layers of nylon binding tape. A bernina clone is sold by Global for sailmakers. Can.be had to do a triple throw zigzag and mount a puller to the back. The consew 146 is a compound feed zig zag. One rigger I know bought one thinking it would up his capability. Not so much. Keep looking at craigslist and fb. But you have to look at every post. Many post have one bad photo and say sewing machine $200. I've gotten many good deals by being able to tell what they were and fix minor things wrong. One of the Bernina's I got for $450. I told them they should get more and it was worth more but not to me as my 5th zig zag. Left the offer standing. No other buyers in 2 weeks and they called me back. Keep looking. And contact me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 Report post Posted November 2, 2021 This is a consew version of a singer 20u in your area. They don't wvwn say zig zag in the ad. May not know. They can be made to.work. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/166590692219689/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 Report post Posted November 2, 2021 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271013551433547/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ke6cvh Report post Posted November 7, 2021 I own a couple 20u's and the "3/4 sized industrial" bed is standard width but a bit shorter than a full sized industrial. We have 188u, 123ts, 121dl and the 20u's all have the same cutout of the 3/4 sized industrial. Even the Juki TL-82 we have is the same cutout. The straight only and zig zag feet/needle plate are easily available. We don't use the 20u for straight stitching but instead use all our "20u" cutout machines on treadles and we use our 20u's for treadle bartacking which it excells at really well. Regarding harp space on a 20u it is actually slightly less than our White family rotary machines which are technically domestics. The 188u has a larger harp space however than the White. The reviews of the Chinese 20u109's are horrible on Amazon and these can be had super low cost but I've avoided them. I got one of mine new old stock made in Japan and it needed to be broken in before it treadled easily because the gearing. We are real fans of 3 step zig zags and getting a good 3 step ZZ is a real challenge so we use our 123ts Singers for that in a 20u cutout and largely/completely ignore our Juki LZ-1286 even it has a metal gear. We briefly had a Singer 457 zig zag and got rid of it as quick as possible as the nylon gear literally disintegrated. Our Singer 123TS also had nylon gear inside but we had brass replacements machined. My experience is the 20u43 and 20u63 we have both made in Japan are fine machines and everyone avoids the China ones. Last comment on ZZ machines we have two Juki LZ-391's (can do straight only with knee lifter for presser and zig zag with knee lifter moved to bight width). The LZ-391's and 271's (ZZ only) are fine machines but keep the gears greased as the machine will start to run hot doing free motion embroidery if not. All the machines mentioned except the lz-1286 are manually oiled machines so do well at slow speeds. The lz-1286 is a factory machine made mainly for 24/7 operation making bra straps etc. Best regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
