Messenger bag lining

[Meandmy1963]

Hello all. I'm still fairly new to the craft. Every project seems to come out better and better. I finally feel comfortable enough to tackle a bag of some sort. I've decided to do a messenger bag for myself. I've figure out a design and I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about lining. Should I really even bother? Should I just left the fleshy side of the leather be the "lining". I plan on doing one pocket as a laptop sleeve and honestly the flesh side of leather seems to be close to what I would want anyways. It's soft and wouldn't scratch anything. Is this the "correct" way to go about this? The leather I'll be using has a pretty firm hand and won't need any type of backing to stiffen, so I'm good there. I'm going for a bit of a rugged look anyways. Likely going to finish my edges with beeswax. So I guess my questions to everyone are: should I go about this in this way? Should I do a cloth lining?(don't really want to) should I back each panel with a softer leather maybe as an interior? What does everyone recommend? Again this is for myself but I do want a nice finished look. Thanks for taking the time to read this

[Spyros]

There is no right and wrong, it's just two different aesthetics.  As long as you like how it looks.

[Meandmy1963]

5 minutes ago, Spyros said:

There is no right and wrong, it's just two different aesthetics.  As long as you like how it looks.

I guess I'm asking more for people's opinion. Of course it's going to be down to aesthetics for the most part. Also though I am curious if anyone has ever or knows of any problems that may arise from carrying a bag without a lining? I wouldnt imagine so. Also I am curious as to what everyone's opinion is on the matter. As an every day carry type of bag, who would want a lining and who would not? I personally am leaning towards not for the look I am after. Just curious as to what the members of this forum think

[Spyros]

Just now, Meandmy1963 said:

I guess I'm asking more for people's opinion. Of course it's going to be down to aesthetics for the most part. Also though I am curious if anyone has ever or knows of any problems that may arise from carrying a bag without a lining? I wouldnt imagine so. Also I am curious as to what everyone's opinion is on the matter. As an every day carry type of bag, who would want a lining and who would not? I personally am leaning towards not for the look I am after. Just curious as to what the members of this forum think

Yeah that was exactly my opinion

What I mean is, it depends on the overall aesthetic of the thing, I'd have to see it and get an idea of what is our vision before I give you an opinion.  And then that opinion would only be based on my aesthetic standards.  It also depends on the leather, some have a finished backing which makes it easier to look at and some are totally fuzzy, which I don't like so much. 

There's also some practical considerations, a leather lining allow you to stitch things like internal pockets and pencil holders without the stitching showing from the outside.  But lining makes gussets a little harder.  Then it's the overall firmness of the bag, like you mention it might need a lining to add stiffness to help it handle and function properly, especially to support the handle and strap holders properly, but again if your leather is firm enough it might not need it.  You won't really know this until the end unfortunately if this is the first time you're making this.   But depending on your design, there is nothing stopping you from adding a brass or aluminium bar after the fact if you feel it's needed.        

[fredk]

Not only aesthetics, but more of a 'finished' look.

I keep quite a range of thin skiver leathers in numerous colours for lining shoulder bags.

Once, when I made a simple one for someone she looked inside, saw the raw, but neatly finished interior of just the flesh side of the main bag leather and said ' you've not finished it then?' and ever since I've been gluing a thin skiver leather to the interior flesh side.

[LatigoAmigo]

[mike02130]

If you don't have experience then I suggest no lining.  If you know what you're doing then use some nice leather and line it with some fancy goatskin.  Maybe make a practice bag first.  As long as you don't have any exposed metal hardware inside the bag then there ought to not be any worry about the laptop getting scratched.

The lining would be strictly for looks. But the bag itself should be of some quality in order to be up to par for the lining.  You don't want to put lipstick on a pig, or in this case a cow.

You may want to be more specific in your question in order to get a better response.

[johnnydb]

Personally I like to have anything but raw leather...so finishing it with some sort of lining is always good. 

If you are going for a rugged look use some denim. Possibly some flannel but it would really depend on the colors. 

And besides...if you are wanting an electronics pocket a lining will keep some of the leather "dust" from the raw side getting into your electronics. 

[Meandmy1963]

I wasn't looking for a specific answer I guess. More of a general opinion. I think one of you hit it on the head when you had a customer look inside and say "oh you haven't finished it then?". That's pretty much what I wanted to know. Seems like the general public would look at it as "unfinished" without some sort of lining. Not that it matters as it's my first bag and it's for myself. But if I'm going to be lining bags in the future I might as well give it a go. Thanks for the help everyone

2 minutes ago, johnnydb said:

Personally I like to have anything but raw leather...so finishing it with some sort of lining is always good. 

If you are going for a rugged look use some denim. Possibly some flannel but it would really depend on the colors. 

And besides...if you are wanting an electronics pocket a lining will keep some of the leather "dust" from the raw side getting into your electronics. 

I was actually thinking flannel if I were to do a lining

[johnnydb]

5 minutes ago, Meandmy1963 said:

I wasn't looking for a specific answer I guess. More of a general opinion. I think one of you hit it on the head when you had a customer look inside and say "oh you haven't finished it then?". That's pretty much what I wanted to know. Seems like the general public would look at it as "unfinished" without some sort of lining. Not that it matters as it's my first bag and it's for myself. But if I'm going to be lining bags in the future I might as well give it a go. Thanks for the help everyone

I was actually thinking flannel if I were to do a lining

I like the look of oil tanned leather for messenger bags myself...kind of a messy worn look but totally reliable at the same time. 

YMMV 

(Your mileage may vary) 

 

[fredk]

One other aspect; sometimes, just some times, the flesh side of leather can act as an abrasive over time. I had limited experience of this with two different bags. One was for fishing equipment. The enamel coating on some reels was abraded off over time. The other bag was a very top make. I got one on the recommendation of a friend. We each carried our camera gear in our bags. Again, over time, the enamel coating on camera bodies and lens barrels was abraded off. Not only was this unsightly but it lowered the re-sale value of the camera equipment. It didn't matter to me as I used my cameras until I killed them but my friend up-graded about twice a year, thus he lost a lot of trade-in value. 

I get thin leather which is about 0.5mm to 0.8mm thick. I glue this to the inside of the main bag leather. That thinness doesn't worry anything when doing gussets and such

[Spyros]

33 minutes ago, Meandmy1963 said:

I wasn't looking for a specific answer I guess. More of a general opinion. I think one of you hit it on the head when you had a customer look inside and say "oh you haven't finished it then?". That's pretty much what I wanted to know. Seems like the general public would look at it as "unfinished" without some sort of lining. Not that it matters as it's my first bag and it's for myself. But if I'm going to be lining bags in the future I might as well give it a go. Thanks for the help everyone

I was actually thinking flannel if I were to do a lining

Depends on the customer and the bag.  $2.2k "unfinished" bag right here

https://www.masconleather.com/bags-1#/walden-satchel

Like I said, if it matches the overall aesthetic of the bag it's not a problem.  If you want a saddlebag feel it's not a problem, if you want a Euro or fine leatherworking feel, it is a problem.

[Spyros]

39 minutes ago, johnnydb said:

Personally I like to have anything but raw leather...so finishing it with some sort of lining is always good. 

If you are going for a rugged look use some denim. Possibly some flannel but it would really depend on the colors. 

And besides...if you are wanting an electronics pocket a lining will keep some of the leather "dust" from the raw side getting into your electronics. 

Question: if you use denim or any fabric lining, what do you do with the edges?  You'd have to turn them right?  Otherwise the fabric will fray.

I've never tried fabric lining but I was always curious.   

[bland]

What design are you using?  Some designs lend themselves to lining better tan others and what type of lining you use.  Do you want a drop in lining?  Are you using a leather lining or fabric lining?    

[Spyros]

15 minutes ago, fredk said:

One other aspect; sometimes, just some times, the flesh side of leather can act as an abrasive over time. I had limited experience of this with two different bags. One was for fishing equipment. The enamel coating on some reels was abraded off over time. The other bag was a very top make. I got one on the recommendation of a friend. We each carried our camera gear in our bags. Again, over time, the enamel coating on camera bodies and lens barrels was abraded off. Not only was this unsightly but it lowered the re-sale value of the camera equipment. It didn't matter to me as I used my cameras until I killed them but my friend up-graded about twice a year, thus he lost a lot of trade-in value. 

I get thin leather which is about 0.5mm to 0.8mm thick. I glue this to the inside of the main bag leather. That thinness doesn't worry anything when doing gussets and such

I've read that this type of abrasion is typically the chemicals in chrome tan leather reacting with some metals, but it shouldn't happen with veg tan.  Do you recall what leather it was?

[fredk]

It was the best part of 30 years ago, before I started leather working/crafting but I'm 99% sure it was a veg tan. The care instructions were for a veg tan leather afair

[johnnydb]

30 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Question: if you use denim or any fabric lining, what do you do with the edges?  You'd have to turn them right?  Otherwise the fabric will fray.

I've never tried fabric lining but I was always curious.   

Yes...you turn them under and first iron it so it creases at the edge before you glue it in and I usually put a line of stitches along that edge as well. 

 

But you can also skive and turn the leather over the edge of the fabric as well....of course sewing the edge in place. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by johnnydb

[Spyros]

1 minute ago, johnnydb said:

Yes...you turn them under and first iron it so it creases at the edge before you glue it in and I usually put a line of stitches along that edge as well. 

Ahhhh, shit LOL  I am an idiot, I was always thinking you have to turn the leather over the fabric, which means skiving etc, it never crossed my mind you can just turn the fabric over itself instead.  Thank you sir, you just opened a world of possibilities

Love this wallet BTW

[gordond]

As said .. considerations for function and aesthetics.....

Bag shown here had to carry vinyl album covers (utterly packed) internationally to a crowded music festival(s) - for autograph hunting. I did very well (the bag certainly helped )..

The lining had to be slick to get these covers out really fast without damage (microseconds to get said autographs ..lol!).. rolled edges aid to that also. Plus a liner was required to cover the plugged embossed facia.. lining here is 0.5mm thin goat (upholstery refinish dye/acrylic) --- simply spray glued on. .Included is a inner hardboard (Masonite) "box" lined with soft nylon plush to hold the bag "square" ...think this plush was used for covering commercial wall partitions - cube farm office (Nb :for those who have seen this bag..I had to strip the top finish as it had denatured and started to get quite smelly .. hence some acrylic came away with it ..not a biggie to fix)

Now ..going down that lining path can be eye opening and wallet emptying!.. many decades ago I started with clutch purses .. click close/ framed, lined .. the lining stumped me .. finally tracked the "right" stuff - I'm talking about competing with top boutique brands here..great ..but potentially had to buy the whole roll.. (equivalent to 2 weeks wages at that time).. it definitely was a specific nylon(?) fabric designed for long life, good domestic abrasion resistance... Actually need to track down more .. anyone care to pitch some suggestions or some real specifics would be appreciated.

Edited October 28, 2021 by gordond
Typo and further explanation

[johnnydb]

10 hours ago, Spyros said:

Ahhhh, shit LOL  I am an idiot, I was always thinking you have to turn the leather over the fabric, which means skiving etc, it never crossed my mind you can just turn the fabric over itself instead.  Thank you sir, you just opened a world of possibilities

Love this wallet BTW

It's actually a journal cover...but I do thank you for the compliment. 

I haven't had much success with bags yet...I am considering doing one again but for a bag I'd need to do some French Seams...and I really hate skiving. (Don't ask, just go with it) 

And bags can be lined in a variety of ways from all I've seen...the number of variations has got my head spinning with choices. So I'm putting it off for a while. 

 

[johnnydb]

2 hours ago, gordond said:

As said .. considerations for function and aesthetics.....

Bag shown here had to carry vinyl album covers (utterly packed) internationally to a crowded music festival(s) - for autograph hunting. I did very well (the bag certainly helped )..

The lining had to be slick to get these covers out really fast without damage (microseconds to get said autographs ..lol!).. rolled edges aid to that also. Plus a liner was required to cover the plugged embossed facia.. lining here is 0.5mm thin goat (upholstery refinish dye/acrylic) --- simply spray glued on. .Included is a inner hardboard (Masonite) "box" lined with soft nylon plush to hold the bag "square" ...think this plush was used for covering commercial wall partitions - cube farm office (Nb :for those who have seen this bag..I had to strip the top finish as it had denatured and started to get quite smelly .. hence some acrylic came away with it ..not a biggie to fix)

Now ..going down that lining path can be eye opening and wallet emptying!.. many decades ago I started with clutch purses .. click close/ framed, lined .. the lining stumped me .. finally tracked the "right" stuff - I'm talking about competing with top boutique brands here..great ..but potentially had to buy the whole roll.. (equivalent to 2 weeks wages at that time).. it definitely was a specific nylon(?) fabric designed for long life, good domestic abrasion resistance... Actually need to track down more .. anyone care to pitch some suggestions or some real specifics would be appreciated.

I just have to say that your bag looks awesome...very unique and nice at the same time. 

I usually pick up cloth at the sewing/hobby stores...they usually have a wide variety... even upholstery fabric and pleather. I think that I've seen something similar there but I'm not sure. And with the current supply chain interruptions... especially nylon you are going to need some luck finding it. (Basic Materials stock's Earnings release report mentioned issues with nylon specifically)

[gordond]

3 hours ago, johnnydb said:

I just have to say that your bag looks awesome...very unique and nice at the same time. 

Thanks..nice work yourself.

Yes .. upholstery grade material....forgot myself that jacket lining is also a viable material... The lining I mentioned from days of old "apparently" was far superior than that ... specific to bags and wallets (possibly salesman double talk..lol!)

Back to the OP's question..guess it comes down to a variety of considerations... The lining has to last and in many cases is easily cleaned.. doesn't fray or damage in higher wear areas..etc...

Then as said ..we get into french edges ..and skiving folding etc..a lot of options. but as you said simply folding the fabric over and sewing could suit.

Or alternatively binding (meh - never liked that - but have done in a few cases).

[Meandmy1963]

I think I might use an old flannel shirt at a lining. I really think it's going to look good and function well. What adhesive do y'all recommend to adhere the flannel fabric to the backside of the leather? I feel like barge is going to soak through. I could be wrong. Maybe if I'm careful enough with it. But seems like a lot of people would use a spray adhesive for this. Maybe I'll test the barge and see how it works on a scrap piece. Honestly though... The spray adhesive option is a quite attractive one. I hate using barge. It stinks, if you get it in the wrong place it can ruin an entire project, and it's an all around pain in the ass to work with. Can't argue with the bond you get from it though. I've never used a spray adhesive before, but seems easy enough. Do y'all think that's what I should do to line the backside of the leather with the fabric from a flannel shirt? (It's a fairly average fabric. Not thin but not crazy thick. Pretty much what you would expect from a decently made flannel shirt)

[fredk]

Sprat can adhesive. Has the main advantage of being able to cover a large area very quickly

1. a light spray coat of adhesive.

2. let it 'flash' off, ie let the solvent evaporate, takes just a minute

3. check tacky of adhesive, not wet just sticky

4. lay material on

5. use a brayer to press and flatten the lining material

Only a light coat of adhesive is needed. It just needs to hold the liner in place, there is no stress on it

[Meandmy1963]

I've decided that's what I'm going to do. Line the back of each leather panel with flannel. I'll be using a spray adhesive. Now I need to figure out exactly how I'm gonna do my edges. I'm leaning towards folding my edges over the fabric for a clean look. This wasn't the plan in the beginning as I was looking for a rugged look with natural edges finished with beeswax. I may still do it this way as I'm seeing a lot of tutorials online on how to do edges with the fabric backing(ie folding the fabric and cutting the leather to size after the fabric is adhered) likely I'm going to do a combination of things to get the look I want while making sure the fabric lining looks right and isn't going to fray over time