Apostolos Report post Posted December 13, 2021 Hi all, Longtime lurker, I have benefited a lot from the knowledge on here, it is time to ask for help on a specific matter. I recently got a Durkopp Adler 269-373 from, after many years of hand sewing. It is set up with 140/22 needles and I'm using #135 thread(EU 20). The dealer advised me to use 105(30) for the bottom thread, which I did for a bit but switched to same as top as it was problematic when sewing was visible both sides. That took a little bit of tinkering with tension to get right. I am working on a tote bag design and managed to sew the side panels to the base with few issues, just a couple of stitches in the run are a little more diagonal and loose (see pic). That was on roughly 4mm total thickness, 2mm suede and 2mm (probably)combination tan , medium temper. I want to sew a part of the handle that is going to be about 6mm thick, 2 pieces of 3mm of the combination tan leather, so I did some test run on scrap pieces. It's all over the place, bottom thread is pulling the top thread though and tinkering with the tension dial hasn't made any difference, even tried loosening the spring on the bobbin case, to no avail. From what I understand this machine shouldn't have any issues sewing with this weight of thread, or these thicknesses of leather, I'm pretty sure the needles are right for the thread size, not sure what's going wrong.. Also, when backstitching I often get a big mess of thread at the bottom (see pics) and occasionally when I start a stitch run it messes up on the first two stitches and if I continue it knocks the timing out so I need to block the hook assembly and operate the handwheel in reverse until it clicks into place. Thanks in advance for any advice, Apostolos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted December 13, 2021 Hi There, Just a guess.....it looks to me like the thread it pretty thick for that machine so you might be at it´s limit?? I would try another thread a little smaller and see if you get the same results. I have a Pfaff 335 and used nº20 thread to see if it would sew it and it did but i felt it was at it´s limit and it was soft leather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) We just had a thread where a fellow from Norway if I remember correctly used a similar thread with very fast twist like yours, and he was having problems. What brand/type/material thread is it? Is it advertised for leather? Edited December 13, 2021 by DrmCa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apostolos Report post Posted December 14, 2021 (edited) Maybe you're right jimi, I might give it a try with #30 top and bottom. I'll have a search for the thread you're referring to DrmCa The thread I'm using is Onyx by Amann group (also sell serabond/serafil), it was suggested to me by the dealer who sold me the machine. https://www.amann.com/products/product/onyx/ Edited December 14, 2021 by Apostolos added link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrmCa Report post Posted December 14, 2021 The product link does not really tell me what kind of thread it is. Saying polyamid is almost like saying polymer. It can Nylon, can be Kevlar. You probably asked for a strong thread, and the dealer sold you their's strongest and most expen$ive. It is a specialty thread, and it may require machine tuning. Since ends are not fraying it looks bonded, so it's pretty stiff. Play with tension: increase, decrease, extra turn around guides, one less turn around guides, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apostolos Report post Posted December 14, 2021 You're right, I should play around with settings some more to see how it behaves. I was hoping someone might have some experience with this model and could confirm whether or not the thread and leather thickness are within its capabilities. On the site linked it does list main applications for the thread, which include belts and small leather goods. The dealer asked me what I would be sewing with the machine and suggested the particular thread, he doesn't supply it himself, so I doubt he benefits from getting me to use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 14, 2021 9 hours ago, Apostolos said: Maybe you're right jimi, I might give it a try with #30 top and bottom. I'll have a search for the thread you're referring to DrmCa The thread I'm using is Onyx by Amann group (also sell serabond/serafil), it was suggested to me by the dealer who sold me the machine. https://www.amann.com/products/product/onyx/ I have some Serafil thread I use on occasions where I need matching red in sizes from T90 through T270. It is expensive in the USA. The Serafil thread is softer than the Cowboy bonded thread I normally use. From the spec page, Onyx looks to be a much stiffer thread. If true, you will need less bobbin and more top tension to balance the knots and it could be harder to center them in thin layers. However, the photos on the product page show perfectly set stitches. I would suggest that you tweak your machine for this thread and once it is dialed in, stick with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apostolos Report post Posted December 14, 2021 Thanks Wizcrafts, it seems like that's going to be the job for this evening. Regarding top tension, is there any difference between the three tensioning dials or do they simply add up tension on the thread? Thanks for all the suggestions, this place is gold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted December 14, 2021 (edited) WE used 2 of these machines in production. #138 top and bottom. Use #23 needles. The smallest needle you can use with #138 is #22/140. I prefer #23/160 needles . Less defection and the thread flows better thru the eyelet. We also used Organ or G-B titanium needles and they work better than the chrome plated Schmetz needles. In tensions discs on your machine, the most bottom one is the primary, the next up is the secondary and the top on is the auxiliary one. I used the bottom one the most to tight or loosen the the top thread tension. Also check the bobbin base opener to make sure it is not hold up the bobbin thread. glenn Edited December 14, 2021 by shoepatcher grammar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apostolos Report post Posted December 14, 2021 Thanks Glenn, I'll try and get some #23 needles to give them a go. If you mean the sliding plate that hides the hook assembly, it's not catching there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted December 18, 2021 No the bobbin case opener is near the hook and it regulates the opening and closing of the thread as it flows around the hook. Get me a pic of your hook area. glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apostolos Report post Posted December 18, 2021 Thanks Glenn, I searched bobbin case opener and came up with an older thread about the part on an Adler 67. Uwe links a video there where he explains its function and how to adjust it. It seems mine was a little off, so there was no gap for the thread to pass freely through where the tab met the throat plate. I'll see how much of a difference this will make with the stitching. I couldn't manage to get it to sew the thicker pieces for the bag handle , but I suspect it is also an issue of the leather being stiffer, as it sewed the same thickness (6mm)of soft chrome tan with no problem. I've got some #160 needles on the way, so hopefully they might be the way to go when sewing thicker projects. Apostolos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
