Keep getting dye on back of leather

[Warhauk]

I've been told to tape the back, which I have. Applying dye to the grain side is no problem but then, even when I'm trying to be careful, I get some bleed over while doing my edges. Is it just something you need to practice until you've figured it out or are there any tricks or techniques someone can enlighten me on?

[seasidesunflower]

What tape do you use? I don't experience this issue with high quality blue painters tape. Also, what is your application process?

 

[tsunkasapa]

I use Magic Markers on my edges. One or two passes does it.

[garypl]

Do you bevel your edges before applying dye and what applicator are you using?

I find it easier to dye edges after I bevel them.  I use a felt chalkboard eraser cut into small pieces and held in a spring clothespin to apply dye.  Dip the piece of eraser lightly into dye and apply to edges.  Don’t soak the eraser - just dip the tip and go slow and you should not see bleeding onto the back.

[chuck123wapati]

 i once asked an old carpenter what the difference was between an apprentice and a master carpenter. He laughed and said the master knows how to hide his screwups. 

the way i see it is you have three choices . 

1. an apprentice =  keep trying to dye the edges perfectly and throw all your screwups in a bin and lose money.

2.  Journeyman =Dye the whole thing and sell it for the same price and hope the dye doesn't bleed.

3. Master= cover it with a liner and sell it as the high QUALITY leather work you want to sell, and you can do it for more money.

Just my opinion but you commented on another post that you wanted to sell high quality leather work, well an unlined collar isn't high quality work.

How ever if you are intent on selling unlined collars then 

I use an edge paint and apply it with the wooden end of a small brush, simply dip about an inch of it in the  paint wipe the extra drip off on the container and run it along the edge using the side of the handle

Edited December 13, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[TomG]

I used to use blue tape on the back, but with some leathers, it pulled up the fibers and made it sort of fluffy, for lack of a better word. How much, if at all, depended on the quality of the leather and what part of the side I was cutting it from.
Since then, I dip dye 95% of my work - mainly strap type of products. I then use Molotow 15mm markers to apply an edge color of my choice and after that dries, to apply a little liquid glycerin soap to burnish the edges with. Makes it super easy, effective and most of all, clean.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H47HP2/ref=twister_B07GBDY6LH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Warhauk]

5 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

I use Magic Markers on my edges. One or two passes does it.

So a normal magic marker? I've seen the empty markers you can fill and am considering that but are normal markers something people use?

4 hours ago, garypl said:

Do you bevel your edges before applying dye and what applicator are you using?

I find it easier to dye edges after I bevel them.  I use a felt chalkboard eraser cut into small pieces and held in a spring clothespin to apply dye.  Dip the piece of eraser lightly into dye and apply to edges.  Don’t soak the eraser - just dip the tip and go slow and you should not see bleeding onto the back.

I bevel my edges before dying. I will admit that my applicator is probably a big part of the problem. I'm using a wool dobber that just barely has any dye on it.

 

5 hours ago, seasidesunflower said:

What tape do you use? I don't experience this issue with high quality blue painters tape. Also, what is your application process?

 

I use the duck brand blue quick release painters tape.

 

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 i once asked an old carpenter what the difference was between an apprentice and a master carpenter. He laughed and said the master knows how to hide his screwups. 

the way i see it is you have three choices . 

1. an apprentice =  keep trying to dye the edges perfectly and throw all your screwups in a bin and lose money.

2.  Journeyman =Dye the whole thing and sell it for the same price and hope the dye doesn't bleed.

3. Master= cover it with a liner and sell it as the high QUALITY leather work you want to sell, and you can do it for more money.

Just my opinion but you commented on another post that you wanted to sell high quality leather work, well an unlined collar isn't high quality work.

How ever if you are intent on selling unlined collars then 

I use an edge paint and apply it with the wooden end of a small brush, simply dip about an inch of it in the  paint wipe the extra drip off on the container and run it along the edge using the side of the handle

Ok so they make an edge paint that I can use rather than a dye. Do you usually match the paint color to the leather or is it something where you can usually just go black and call it good? So I believe you did recommend on my other post using a liner, which for the stuff people would be wearing, I have decided to put a suede liner on all of those. I just didn't really feel like a suede liner on a dog collar was a good solution, but I could easily be wrong. What would be a good liner material for a dog collar?

I guess I never actually mentioned this is a dog collar. I should probably specify when I post since I am making collars for both people and dogs currently.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Warhauk

[Hags]

I just got started using the empty markers from the buckle guy. Much better than any results I had with a dauber. Pretty inexpensive too.

[HandyDave]

If your beveling your edges on front and back of straps then it doesnt really matter how to apply dyes or edge paints. Once you bevel the back side edge it becomes part of the edge instead of the back if that makes since. If you dont want that dye rollover to the backside dont bevel the back edge only do the front. When i have  to tape i use the green frog tape its like the blue painters but has better paint and dye blocking then regular blue painters tape. But you also have to think on the rough side the tape isnt truly gonna be smooth flat so thats gonna allow bleed threw. Collars and belts i allways line with smooth leather never suede. I actually cant think of anything ive ever lined with suede unless a customer just had to have it. I see so many holsters with suede liners and it breaks my heart to know those poor guns are loosing there finish because somebody thought putting sandpaper suede in there holster was a good idea. This is just my opinion of course i dont want to piss off any suede users. 

[Handstitched]

 Is there a particular reason why the back isn't dyed? Unless I intend to add lining, I always dye  and seal the back of my belts and collars and various other items.  I would think it was quicker to dye the backs than fiddle about taping, and using markers and edge paints. 

@chuck123wapati You make a good point about the carpenter. I do sometimes see wood workers selling their hand made wares at markets etc. When I see the backs of items unpainted, unvarnished etc. they look unfinished.  But thats just me. 

HS

Edited December 14, 2021 by Handstitched

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, Warhauk said:

So a normal magic marker? I've seen the empty markers you can fill and am considering that but are normal markers something people use?

I bevel my edges before dying. I will admit that my applicator is probably a big part of the problem. I'm using a wool dobber that just barely has any dye on it.

 

I use the duck brand blue quick release painters tape.

 

Ok so they make an edge paint that I can use rather than a dye. Do you usually match the paint color to the leather or is it something where you can usually just go black and call it good? So I believe you did recommend on my other post using a liner, which for the stuff people would be wearing, I have decided to put a suede liner on all of those. I just didn't really feel like a suede liner on a dog collar was a good solution, but I could easily be wrong. What would be a good liner material for a dog collar?

I guess I never actually mentioned this is a dog collar. I should probably specify when I post since I am making collars for both people and dogs currently.

Tandy sells edge coat in black and brown maybe some others, i just use the two. its thicker so wont run or bleed and it covers any uneven dye problems on the edges. I let the customer decide on lined or unlined for dog collars but the edge coat goes on both anyway. Liners can be any leather you want ,with a lot depending on the dog breed heck i made collars for my Bullies out of two 10oz layers, but they are big dogs.

[Warhauk]

10 hours ago, HandyDave said:

If your beveling your edges on front and back of straps then it doesnt really matter how to apply dyes or edge paints. Once you bevel the back side edge it becomes part of the edge instead of the back if that makes since. If you dont want that dye rollover to the backside dont bevel the back edge only do the front. When i have  to tape i use the green frog tape its like the blue painters but has better paint and dye blocking then regular blue painters tape. But you also have to think on the rough side the tape isnt truly gonna be smooth flat so thats gonna allow bleed threw. Collars and belts i allways line with smooth leather never suede. I actually cant think of anything ive ever lined with suede unless a customer just had to have it. I see so many holsters with suede liners and it breaks my heart to know those poor guns are loosing there finish because somebody thought putting sandpaper suede in there holster was a good idea. This is just my opinion of course i dont want to piss off any suede users. 

I was pretty hesitant using suede also because I personally dont feel it would be very confortable but my wife was insistent that it is a good liner. Then I asked the guy at tandys bc i was going to either pick up some pigskin liner or some of the colorful cowhide liner they have and my wife said they dont feel very good. He said he lined everything he did with suede and loves it so I just assumed I was the incorrect one. Good to know that I shouldn't line hilsters with it though. Do you think it would be fine to line a phone holster though? My dad still wears one and I'm going to make him one for christmas.

[Warhauk]

10 hours ago, Handstitched said:

 Is there a particular reason why the back isn't dyed? Unless I intend to add lining, I always dye  and seal the back of my belts and collars and various other items.  I would think it was quicker to dye the backs than fiddle about taping, and using markers and edge paints. 

@chuck123wapati You make a good point about the carpenter. I do sometimes see wood workers selling their hand made wares at markets etc. When I see the backs of items unpainted, unvarnished etc. they look unfinished.  But thats just me. 

HS

One reason is honestly just because the first videos I started watching on leather craft were from weaver leather on youtube and he likes to keep the back of a lot of his stuff natural. I pretty quickly decided I liked the full dye look better but my wife said it looked weird and preferred the natural back. The tipping factor was that I'm afraid of dye bleed and figured I'd play it safe until I have enough experience. I've actually dyed 2 bracelets Im wearing around, 1 with resolene finish and 1 with aussie leather conditioner as the finish. I want to see how long it will take before it bleeds with normal wear. So far so nothing.

[chuck123wapati]

17 minutes ago, Warhauk said:

I was pretty hesitant using suede also because I personally dont feel it would be very confortable but my wife was insistent that it is a good liner. Then I asked the guy at tandys bc i was going to either pick up some pigskin liner or some of the colorful cowhide liner they have and my wife said they dont feel very good. He said he lined everything he did with suede and loves it so I just assumed I was the incorrect one. Good to know that I shouldn't line hilsters with it though. Do you think it would be fine to line a phone holster though? My dad still wears one and I'm going to make him one for christmas.

Here's the deal, everything you are ever going to make has a purpose. That purpose is what you use to decide materials of construction, leather types dyes, rivets, threads etc.

 You will get a dozen answers and about the same amount of arguments on what material to use. Suede has its uses as does everything else. The holster debate will go on forever, personally I don't line holsters unless its wanted its a waste IMO guns have no feelings, they don't feel smooth or rough texture and keeping a gun/holster clean has more to do with the owner than the leather but that's not the question here your making collars right? i feel that same about phone holsters too, line em or not it doesn't matter the phone doesn't care, only the guy giving you the money cares.

I think there is some confusion in discussions here as each crafter has his own methods depending on how he sells. I sell, as do others,  to customers based on their wishes. Some sell in bulk , make a dozen of something and sell it at fairs online etc. Some are hobbyists making literally anything they want or need, some are making a living at this or at least attempting to and sell preconceived products, all exactly the same. All these things dictate to some degree what you use and why you use it. What a person likes against their skin is purely a matter of personal opinion  so making a blanket statement that this leather or that is the best is just silly. I suggested suede for a dog collar but you can sure as heck line a collar or anything for that matter with any leather you want or not its up to you.

 So with this rambling on of mine I'm trying to get to a point i think. What you really need to confirm is what you are making. why you are making it. how you are going to promote it. and how you are going to sell it. That will decide, to a point, what materials you will need and why you will use them. If you like suede lined collars make em, if you like smooth lined collars make em, make both and see which sells best to whom ever your intended market is. 

[Spyros]

Trying to stand a liquid that is specifically designed to stain forever anything that it touches, on the edge of a thin material that likes to soak everything like a sponge, without ever making a mistake, that is basically masochism in my book.  

If I can just burnish the edges and not dye them, I do that.   If I can roll the edges, I do that.  If I can dye the flesh side with the same thing that I use to dye the edges, and is preferably the same colour as the skin side so any little mistake will not show, I do that.  If I can dye the edge and then line the flesh side to cover any bleed through, I do that.

Basically I'll do anything to avoid doing what you're trying to do.  If none of the above is an option then I simply change the design until it is.

 

If you absolutely must dye the edges, keep in mind that the "proper" way is to use edge paint, and you must-not bevel the edges at all, not before and not after painting.  The sharp edge is your barrier and the edge paint is supposed to build up against it (without ever going over - good luck with that) and then you are supposed to build layers of paint with sanding in between, layer upon layer until the paint itself becomes the bevelled edge.  And yeah, you have to let it dry properly between layers and sanding, and yeah it takes forever.  That's proper edge painting. 

If you want to just change the colour of the edge with whatever dye you have in hand, then those refillable markers are probably the most error-proof method.  But it still requires above average hand-eye coordination.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Spyros

[chuck123wapati]

another proper way to apply edge coat.

https://tandyleather.com/collections/supplies/products/fiebings-edge-kote

And for dye try a piece of felt instead of a dauber. dont get it dripping wet squeeze some back out. The old fashioned thick bluish grey kind not the blanket material felt

Edited December 14, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[Warhauk]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

Here's the deal, everything you are ever going to make has a purpose. That purpose is what you use to decide materials of construction, leather types dyes, rivets, threads etc.

 You will get a dozen answers and about the same amount of arguments on what material to use. Suede has its uses as does everything else. The holster debate will go on forever, personally I don't line holsters unless its wanted its a waste IMO guns have no feelings, they don't feel smooth or rough texture and keeping a gun/holster clean has more to do with the owner than the leather but that's not the question here your making collars right? i feel that same about phone holsters too, line em or not it doesn't matter the phone doesn't care, only the guy giving you the money cares.

I think there is some confusion in discussions here as each crafter has his own methods depending on how he sells. I sell, as do others,  to customers based on their wishes. Some sell in bulk , make a dozen of something and sell it at fairs online etc. Some are hobbyists making literally anything they want or need, some are making a living at this or at least attempting to and sell preconceived products, all exactly the same. All these things dictate to some degree what you use and why you use it. What a person likes against their skin is purely a matter of personal opinion  so making a blanket statement that this leather or that is the best is just silly. I suggested suede for a dog collar but you can sure as heck line a collar or anything for that matter with any leather you want or not its up to you.

 So with this rambling on of mine I'm trying to get to a point i think. What you really need to confirm is what you are making. why you are making it. how you are going to promote it. and how you are going to sell it. That will decide, to a point, what materials you will need and why you will use them. If you like suede lined collars make em, if you like smooth lined collars make em, make both and see which sells best to whom ever your intended market is. 

Very well put overall. That was also my theory for holsters. I figure normal leather isn't going to rough up the gun. For the phone holster, my thought is that it will stop potential scratching of the phones screen as it moves in and out.

I intend eventually to make things as requested but for now, I have to put out some work to get people to order from me. I will also possibly do stuff like ren faires and markets with some bulk stuff. 

I get that it really is just a matter of preference for everybody and I can pretty much just do whatever I want, but at least getting some opinions of others can help point me in the right directions for me. I believe fully in the concept of borrowing wisdom from others. I will definitely have to run through a lot of trial and error and figure things out for myself, but a lot of you guys here have a lot of experience and good insight and I think it better to get some opinions from you rather than reinvent the wheel sequestered in my house.

I just also like to overanalyze stuff and ask a bunch of questions. When I do something, I like to get into the details of. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing well.

 

[Klara]

On 12/14/2021 at 12:40 AM, Warhauk said:

So a normal magic marker? I've seen the empty markers you can fill and am considering that but are normal markers something people use?

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/97215-what-do-i-need-for-tooling-this/?tab=comments#comment-659941

Not sure how many other people use normal magic marker; I have done so successfully. On untreated leather, which I afterwards covered with leather grease for saddles and tack. I also have two belt buckles done the same way which hold up amazingly well.

Question to the experts: Am I right in thinking that the result of edge painting should not be just a coloured edge, but a raised, rounded one that looks like the plastic-lined edge of my tablet holder (which is the first thing to come off, btw.)? And that dye + beeswax burnishing gives a similar effect?

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Question to the experts: Am I right in thinking that the result of edge painting should not be just a coloured edge, but a raised, rounded one that looks like the plastic-lined edge of my tablet holder (which is the first thing to come off, btw.)? And that dye + beeswax burnishing gives a similar effect?

In times more recently I have seen some edge paint sellers recommend building the edge paint onto a flat edge. I have never found that to be very successful myself and do prefer to keep the edge coat thickness minimal and ironed in to toughen the paint up as well. Burnishing can be a lot quicker and give a similar look on the right sort of leather (mostly veg tan) but can not keep the smooth polished look for as long sometimes. Many products like the crocodile skin products I make can not be bevelled with  hand tools and can not be burnished well in most cases. To not bore you with a whole lot of whys and wherefores I will give you a link to a post I did awhile ago that shows pretty much the process of doing edge painting the way I do it.

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Klara said:

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/97215-what-do-i-need-for-tooling-this/?tab=comments#comment-659941

Not sure how many other people use normal magic marker; I have done so successfully. On untreated leather, which I afterwards covered with leather grease for saddles and tack. I also have two belt buckles done the same way which hold up amazingly well.

Question to the experts: Am I right in thinking that the result of edge painting should not be just a coloured edge, but a raised, rounded one that looks like the plastic-lined edge of my tablet holder (which is the first thing to come off, btw.)? And that dye + beeswax burnishing gives a similar effect?

When i use edge paint i do it like the video from the company that sells it. don't know why, following directions isn't always my first go to. i make my edges in different shapes from flat to round and if i want them to look nice and smooth i edge paint them no matter the finished shape. But I'm not ocd on edges. to me edge painting is more of a sealing,  transition, completion than it is an absolute technique that needs to be followed to the letter. just another tool in the artists box. IMO

[Doc Reaper]

I see folks here using black markers, I use a roller to apply edges, it leaves a clean line and not as messy as a dauber. The edge rollers do require cleaning but I’m good with it. 
if the back is to marked use a paint roller (not soaking) to cover up the untidy looks

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

In times more recently I have seen some edge paint sellers recommend building the edge paint onto a flat edge. I have never found that to be very successful myself and do prefer to keep the edge coat thickness minimal and ironed in to toughen the paint up as well. Burnishing can be a lot quicker and give a similar look on the right sort of leather (mostly veg tan) but can not keep the smooth polished look for as long sometimes. Many products like the crocodile skin products I make can not be bevelled with  hand tools and can not be burnished well in most cases. To not bore you with a whole lot of whys and wherefores I will give you a link to a post I did awhile ago that shows pretty much the process of doing edge painting the way I do it.

 

When you get to the stage where you're polishing the edges 4-5 belts at the time on the buffing wheel, instead of doing that try running a clean cloth with a touch of acetone along the edge.   Depending on the chemical composition of your edge paint it might give you a mirror finish very easily (or it might not, so try it on a test piece).   I think it was acetone anyway, it's been a while since someone told me and I tried it...