How thin to skive?

[MtlBiker]

I'm getting myself a Techsew SK-4 skiver!  Because they are "busy" it won't be ready for pickup for a week or longer.  SIGH  Anyway, in anticipation I want to cut out leather pieces for some bags I want to make.  As a total newbie to skiving, how thin can/should you skive leather before it's too thin?  Let's say I have 4oz chrome tan leather and I want the seam areas to be a lot less bulky... Do I skive it down to half the thickness?  More?  At what point is it too much?

Do you (can you) also skive 2-3 oz leather?  I want to make some women's wallets using leather that I'd made some before with interfaced cotton and some with vinyl.  The vinyl ones are alright but still thicker at the seams than I like.  Should I use my 4oz leather and skive it down or should I start with my thinner leather?  Maybe skive that down too? 

At what point of thinness does the leather start to loose strength at the seams?

Thanks for any advice.

(Here's a photo of the last wallet I'd made with fake leather.)

 

[tsunkasapa]

When I mate up two edges to sew together, I take them down by half. If there is a third piece in there, I take them just a bit further and take the 3rd piece down to about 1/3. It really depends on your leather as to what is 'too far'.

[MtlBiker]

19 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

When I mate up two edges to sew together, I take them down by half. If there is a third piece in there, I take them just a bit further and take the 3rd piece down to about 1/3. It really depends on your leather as to what is 'too far'.

Thank you.  And what's the thinnest leather you would do that with?  Would you do it with 2oz?  For the purse I've shown, the flap is sewn right sides together and then turned right side out through the base of the flap and then top stitched.  Take the leather down to a half?

I'm tempted to try this with my 2 +/- oz leather instead of the 4oz I have.  If that is skived down to half, would it be so thin as to loose strength in the seam areas?

 

[DrmCa]

It has to remain functional after the esthetics is taken care of by skiving. If it tears easily, it's too thin.

[zuludog]

This might be useful When, Why, and How to Skive Leather by Hand - YouTube 

[MtlBiker]

59 minutes ago, zuludog said:

This might be useful When, Why, and How to Skive Leather by Hand - YouTube 

Thanks for that link... I'll take a look.  So far I have not had any success with hand skiving, which is why I ordered a bell skiver machine.  And I was hoping to get some guidance about how much I should skive and whether or not to skive an already fairly thin 2oz chrome tan.

 

[zuludog]

Unfortunately you can go on and on ..... Search YT for skiving leather, there are loads of videos ..... there are three basic styles of hand skiving knife -- the Japanese leather knife aka Japanese skiving knife ... the English style paring knife, which has an angled cutting edge .... and the French style, which is a sort of hand held chisel, sometimes with a rounded cutting edge; Search YT and suppliers websites and you'll come across them all. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. 

But for wallet edges you could .... also consider a French Edger ..... welcome to the fun! Needless to say, they all need to be absolutely razor sharp

I don't use chrome tanned leather much, but I think it's more difficult to skive than veg tan ... and skiving 2oz leather would surely be very difficult and feather it down to nothing

If you want to skive such thin leather, Search YT for 'skiving leather for bookbinding' as well 

Edited January 28, 2022 by zuludog

[MtlBiker]

17 minutes ago, zuludog said:

Unfortunately you can go on and on ..... Search YT for skiving leather, there are loads of videos ..... there are three basic styles of hand skiving knife -- the Japanese leather knife aka Japanese skiving knife ... the English style paring knife, which has an angled cutting edge .... and the French style, which is a sort of hand held chisel, sometimes with a rounded cutting edge; Search YT and suppliers websites and you'll come across them all. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. 

But for wallet edges you could .... also consider a French Edger ..... welcome to the fun! Needless to say, they all need to be absolutely razor sharp

I don't use chrome tanned leather much, but I think it's more difficult to skive than veg tan ... and skiving 2oz leather would surely be very difficult and feather it down to nothing

If you want to skive such thin leather, Search YT for 'skiving leather for bookbinding' as well 

I just watched the video you linked to... it's REALLY helpful!  Thank you again.

I've (a couple of days ago) ordered some Japanese skiving knifes in 3 sizes.  And from the video I can see that a French Edger would also be very useful.  Too bad I didn't know about it before I ordered from Japan.  My knife order will supposedly arrive on Monday.  It's already in North America.

You're the second person to tell me that it's difficult to skive chrome tan by hand.  But I was under the impression that using a bell skiver would work well with chrome tan and since that is what I'd probably use most of, that's the reason I ordered the machine.

I've got a lot to learn and many skills to develop.

Cheers!

 

[tsunkasapa]

For 2oz and less, I don't consider it 'there'. I don't take 'lining" leather into consideration when constructing a project. It's just 'there', but doesn't really add anything to the thickness.

[MtlBiker]

11 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

For 2oz and less, I don't consider it 'there'. I don't take 'lining" leather into consideration when constructing a project. It's just 'there', but doesn't really add anything to the thickness.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you said/meant.

Are you saying that 2 oz chrome tan is "lining" leather?  Are you saying you don't skive 2 oz?  What do you mean by not considering it "there"?  Where?

[tsunkasapa]

Yes, it is lining leather. No, I don't skive it. When I line a project with it, I do not make any allowances for it being there.

[MtlBiker]

3 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

Yes, it is lining leather. No, I don't skive it. When I line a project with it, I do not make any allowances for it being there.

Thanks for clarifying.  But please tell me, would you ever consider using 2 oz chrome tan leather for the outside of something like the wallet I showed above?  I'd still use an interfaced cotton for the interior and credit card slots.

[tsunkasapa]

No, I would use 2oz vegtan, and I would probably use goat or sheep for the interior. I don't use fabric in any of my work.

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, tsunkasapa said:

No, I would use 2oz vegtan, and I would probably use goat or sheep for the interior. I don't use fabric in any of my work.

Great!  I appreciate the info.  As you know I'm a beginner when it comes to working with leather and I'm just feeling my way through.  I wouldn't have known to check for sheep or goat leather.  I'm getting quite a lot on my shopping list for the next time I visit the supplier.

Cheers!
 

[DrmCa]

It's a matter of personal preference. Fabric-lined totes and purses are lighter, and it makes a difference if they have to be carried all day long.

[jcuk]

Word of warning on using a skirt Shave (French Edger) there is a learning curve to use one safely, as i was told when i did my training its a tool many saddlers have a lot of respect for. And will say don't think its a tool that can easily be used light weight chrome tanned leather, i certainly know that it would not be my go to tool for the weights of leather you mentioned. But it is a great tool for the right kind of job just make sure its good and sharp and had a good strop best thing i can say to you make sure you keep your free hand and fingers behind the cutting edge because in inexperienced users they can be hard to control especially if they are starting to go dull they can have tendency to not cut how you want and suddenly slip and if your free hand is in front of the cutting edge ouch.

Hope this helps

JCUK 

[MtlBiker]

7 minutes ago, jcuk said:

Word of warning on using a skirt Shave (French Edger) there is a learning curve to use one safely, as i was told when i did my training its a tool many saddlers have a lot of respect for. And will say don't think its a tool that can easily be used light weight chrome tanned leather, i certainly know that it would not be my go to tool for the weights of leather you mentioned. But it is a great tool for the right kind of job just make sure its good and sharp and had a good strop best thing i can say to you make sure you keep your free hand and fingers behind the cutting edge because in inexperienced users they can be hard to control especially if they are starting to go dull they can have tendency to not cut how you want and suddenly slip and if your free hand is in front of the cutting edge ouch.

Hope this helps

JCUK 

Yes, indeed it does help.  Thank you.  I watched a video that @zuludog linked to above and it showed very nicely how to use the french edger (I don't have one) and a Japanese skiving knife.  I'd already tried skiving by hand with my round knife and I guess it wasn't sharp enough as all I managed to do was scrape the edge of the leather without slicing into it.  But the knife was certainly sharp enough for me to cut myself quite badly in spite of having thought I was being careful.  SIGH  And that's when I placed the order for a bell skiver.  I'd also ordered some Japanese skiving knifes, and they should be here on Tuesday.

What you said about skiving chrome tan is what I've been told by others, but the bell skiver should work with that kind of leather quite well.

[MtlBiker]

51 minutes ago, DrmCa said:

It's a matter of personal preference. Fabric-lined totes and purses are lighter, and it makes a difference if they have to be carried all day long.

It's probably easier also to use fabric for the interior, especially the card slots.  At least for the pattern I'm using (the NCW by Emmalinebags).  Do you have a recommendation for the thickness of chrome tan leather to use if I want to make the above wallet using leather for the outside?  I'm thinking that my 2 oz might be thick enough and wouldn't need skiving on the edges.  The 4 oz I have would need skiving, so if I use that I'll have to wait until the bell skiver I ordered is ready for pickup (about a week).

Thanks!

 

[zuludog]

Jo Heard of JH Leather is an expert at using a head knife, which is a round knife with one point, and this video shows her using hers for skiving, though admittedly she's using thicker leather than you intend to

In fact all her videos are worth watching; they are clear and well made. She does techniques, tools, making items, often using her head knife, plus you get the added bonus of hearing a perfect middle class English accent.

How to Raise Leather - Dog Collar Tutorial - YouTube

The book that I got from the library and got me started on leatherwork was 'Leatherwork - A Practical Guide' by Chris Taylor. In it he commented that 'a French Edger is one of the most dangerous tools in the workshop'. 

But of course, you should keep your fingers behind the cutting edge of any tool 

I use oilstones and a strop to sharpen most of my knives, but for my Japanese leather knives I use this

Scary Sharpening (workshopheaven.com)

The full system is a bit expensive but the sample pack at about £10 is just right for the Japanese knives, just find your own sheet of glass or similar

Most abrasive papers use the Grit size, but these use microns, but it's easy enough to find a conversion chart on t'Net

See if you can find a Canadian distributor

Edited January 29, 2022 by zuludog

[jcuk]

Skirt Shave (french Edger) you decide. You decide who understands how to use one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKwoGWddOro 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dej8BH1DFgs

Hope this helps

JCUK