Is it always this difficult?

[jamextras]

I need a light/medium duty cylinder arm machine. 

I'm in central Missouri. I can't find any dealers locally. They all seem to only deal in quilting and household type machines. 

I've already contacted an Artisan dealer, Techsew directly, sewingmachinesplus about a Techsew, Springfield Leather about the Cobra class 26 and Toledo about a Cowboy. 

Naturally, before making a pretty much irreversible purchase, I'd have a few questions and I'd want those answers directly from the horses mouth. But apparently these places don't seem to agree that that's reasonable. 

So please if anyone knows of a company other than the places I've mentioned I'd greatly appreciate it. I've scoured the internet and I'm still not able to give my money away for a cylinder arm.

Like everyone else I'd prefer to buy it in person. I'm pretty much equidistant between Kansas City and St Louis and am willing to drive maybe 5 hours one way if needed. But I'm more than willing to have it shipped. 

$3500 budget on a new machine. ?On used?

No brand loyalty or preference at this point aside from the fact that junk and me don't get along. 

So again, if anyone has an idea of where i might be able to find one of these types of machines I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by jamextras
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[JLSleather]

I'm up the road from you in Iowa - got a cobra 4 I'm selling.  Not sure if it fits your needs or not

BUT... Bob knows stuff   Call Bob Kovar at Toledo Industrial Sewing (Ohio).  Bob's a good one, and will point you to what you ACTUALLY need, not a salesman looking to bump his commission. 

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/

 

[jamextras]

I'm sure that all the good things I've read about Bob Kovar are true. But my experience with him yesterday was anything but good. I was left with the strong impression that he had too many orders to be bothered with me.

[jamextras]

Thanks I wish you had a machine that did fit. But I need something that'll do from a few layers of of 1000d up to a couple layers of 8oz leather.

[JREESER1]

Springfield Leather in Springfield Mo. is a Cobra dealer:

1463 S. Glenstone, Springfield, MO 65804 | 1 (800) 668-8518 | Mon. - Sat. 10 am to 6 pm 

[jamextras]

That was the first place I tried. But when the girl who answers the phone doesn't know the first thing about Cobra and says that "the person who knows about the sewing machines isn't available", on several different days and I can't even get a return call. Maybe a single machine purchase doesn't warrant a call back for a few measly questions/clarifications. It makes me wonder how bad it can get after the sale should I have a problem with the machine. As true as all this is I'm only stating it to explain why I asked in my first post If anyone knows a place besides the 5 I already tried to deal with.

[Hags]

I'd call the Leathermachine.com direct and speak with them. I believe that's who Springfield gets their machines from. They were very good when I had an issue with my class 3.

[jrdunn]

Yeah, SLC's service has slipped.  I have noticed in my last few orders that it takes longer and longer for the order to be processed.  I don't know if they are having trouble finding help or increased orders.  I also asked about a Cobra class 4 when I called in my last order.  The lady told me there would be an eight week wait.  So, I called Toledo Sewing Machine, 3 week wait.  I ordered a CB4500 from Bob.

[DrmCa]

Your purchase is anything but irreversible.

[jamextras]

Yeah, if it doesn't function properly I guess. But short of that, the shipping costs both ways and the 15% or so restocking fee make it an irreversible transaction for me personally. That'd be somewhere around $1000 hit. 

[jamextras]

2 hours ago, Hags said:

I'd call the Leathermachine.com direct and speak with them. I believe that's who Springfield gets their machines from. They were very good when I had an issue with my class 3.

That's just what I'm gonna do come Monday. Thank you. 

[kgg]

7 hours ago, jamextras said:

I need a light/medium duty cylinder arm machine.

If the cylinder bed machine is what will suit your needs why not just cut to the chase and buy either a new Juki LS-1341 or a used Juki LS-341. The Juki LS-341 is the model that the dealers you have contacted are copying. I would contact Juki USA and ask them if there is a dealer close to you as well as they would be able to answer your questions. As a price reference the cost for a new Juki LS-1341 would be about $3650 US from Industrial Sewing Machine Man            ( industrialsewingmachineman.com/machines/mach.asp?dir=sewmach&brand=Juki&Model=LS%2D1341&ProductType=Industrial+Straight+Stitch+Machines ).

I don't think the Juki LS-341 / 1341 or a clone is going to be the right machine for doing 1000d (I am assuming it is some form of ripstop nylon material). A simple walking foot something like a 1181n would do that much more efficiently.

If you decide to buy a new machine buy a Brand Name like Juki, Adler, PFAFF. The brand name machines will hold their value better, easier to resell and command a higher resale price then a clone.

Buy Once, Cry Once

kgg

 

[JLSleather]

9 hours ago, jamextras said:

That's just what I'm gonna do come Monday. Thank you. 

I own a cobra machine, and I STILL don't call them out there. 

I ordered a new machine.  DIdn't see some of the bolts, so I called and asked.  Got somebody who told me "it's in that box in the packing.  But there WAS NO BOX in there.  Oh, sorry, they said, we'll get that right out to you.  They DID get that out quickly, I'll give em that.  But that box was like 50 POUNDS... so not sure how you send a dozen pallets at a time, one ways 50 POUNDS light, and nobody catches that?@#!

But I DID get those parts (all the feet were supposed to be in that box too) a few days later, so.. one problem solved. 

But A BRAND NEW machine wouldn't sew back into the same holes it JUST MADE, which is why I ordered it in the first place, because they ADVERTISED TO NO END that the machine back-sews in to the same holes.  When I called (again) I eventually got "cobra steve", who wanted to verify that the machine is plugged in and that the needle is facing the right direction and is "all the way up" in the needle bar.  Yeah, it's powered on (that's how it made the holes) and yeah, the needle is in the way the picture shows (which shouldn't matter, since it was in the SAME WAY it was in before I put it in reverse).

So I'm getting pretty irritated at that point, since a brand new machine hasn't made a single part out the door in about a week and I have orders to fill.  I had completed a few by sewing around the project, pulling it out the machine, and "back tacking" BY HAND, which I didn't want to do, and didn't think i should HAVE TO do since I just spent several thousand dollars.

I complained at some length, and "cobra steve" sent another machine and offered to pay the return shipping on that one.  Said if I don't like the replacement, just let him know and he'd refund my money.  So a couple weeks later, after bolting the replacement down and getting the same thing.. I called again. Steve never available, but "we'll have him call you".  Except nobody ever did.  I learned how to adjust that, which is good ... but I still think that a check for several thousand dollars SHOULD mean I DONT HAVE TO "figure it out" - it should arrive ALREADY working like you advertised.

I told other people about this, and some of them did the SAME TEST I was doing on THEIR machines, only to find out that theirs doesn't stitch back in same holes either.  One guy had his machine for THREE YEARS and insisted his DID work.  Got a bit upset, but he was my buddy so he offered to video "prove" it.  Came back on line  half an hour later to say HIS DIDN"T WORK that way either.  SO.. I gotta ask right?  HOW did you use that machine FOR THREE YEARS and never catch that?  He said he's a holster maker (and a GOOD one) and when he sews a holster and gets to the end he just SPINS THE HOLSTER and sews FORWARD into the same holes - NEVER USES reverse!

The POINT?  

I'm thinking it's POSSIBLE that you perceive you got less than stellar service from FIVE other places, but I personally think it's RIDICULOUS to think that "cobra" would be an improvement over ANY of them. 

Got an entire morning, I could tell you some of the issues I've had with Springfield Leather (yeah, the one advertising here).  But they've got NOTHING on the people at "leather machine" - not even close.  SLC issues seemed to be mostly untrained and UNLEARNED employees who simply didn't understand the leather - think checker at the fast food drive thru.  Just one ...

I once ordered a meter-long piece of python that they told me would be 8" wide.  What i received was 17" x 6" -  so NOT going to work for that belt inlay.  This is NOT helpful, but they quickly sent out the RIGHT piece, which was the correct piece and actually QUITE NICE.  THe disruption was minimal - I had to bump back a couple OTHER orders to get the project out in time for that belt ANNIVERSARY PRESENT to be completed and delivered on time, so everybody was good in the end.  But that's not even in the same league as somebody (LMC) who shows outright CONTEMPT after the sale, and appears to think that they can simply distract from your complaint with remedial "instructions" which have NOTHING to do with the problem.

If you get decent service there, congratulations - maybe something got improved since i was there   But I get needles, thread, bobbins, and common sense tips from BOB. 

[kgg]

19 hours ago, jamextras said:

I need a light/medium duty cylinder arm machine.

Just a little food for thought since most everyone is cost conscious. I figured I'd see what the cost of a Singer 29k back 100 years would have cost versus the average hourly and yearly wage. What I found sort of surprised me.

1) Average 1922 hourly wage $0.35
    Average yearly wage $728 for 52 weeks of work based on a 40 hour work week.
    Average cost of a Singer 29K was $60 which works out to about 4.28 weeks of salaried work.

2) Average 2021 hourly wage $26.78
    Average yearly wage $54,630 CAD for 52 weeks of work
   
3) If the Singer 29K was being still made what could we expect it to cost?  4.28 weeks of work X 26.78 hourly wage X 40 hour work week = $4,584.74 CAD

In Canada the cost of a new overseas 29K clone ranges in price from $1079 and $3600 while a brand name Claes Model 30 costs about $7000.  

kgg

 

[jamextras]

15 hours ago, kgg said:

            ( industrialsewingmachineman.com/machines/mach.asp?dir=sewmach&brand=Juki&Model=LS%2D1341&ProductType=Industrial+Straight+Stitch+Machines ).

This place is totally legit? The prices are at least as good as commonly found and a lot of times better. And with free shipping on a lot of the machines. 

15 hours ago, kgg said:

 

 

 

[Handstitched]

Forgive me  for chiming in, but theres a huge lack of industrial sewing machine/ parts  dealers   here in West Oz.  Theres one over 2 hours  from me, that isn't all that helpful and ex$y , and mostly domestics, and just one towards the northern burb's in Perth , also 2hr's + from me. That one doesn't even have a web site. Geez !! 

 I know it can't happen these days, but I'm a bit 'olde fashioned', I like go into a shop, see what I'm buying and get good help & advice.....pffft ....none of that here in the west. 

All my parts etc. come from  'Sewing Machines Australia'  Queensland .  They know their stuff  and are helpful,  even if it is over the phone  

My 2 cents worth + tax 

@kgg Quite an interesting observation and comparison . 

HS

[TomE]

So I'm 3.5 hrs away from SLC and picked up a Cobra 4 from them last year.  They have several machines in their showroom and a young holster maker walked me through setting up the machine then I spent 20 min sewing before heading home.  That said, I had to adjust the shuttle timing and the walking foot movement on my machine before it would sew properly. So much for checking out the machines before they go out the door.  I'll view it as a learning opportunity and thank my teachers on this forum.  SLC did swap out the Leather Machine Co name plate on my machine for one that says "Cobra Class 4.  Serviced by SLC and Leather Machine Co."  Nice touch. 

[kgg]

8 hours ago, jamextras said:

This place is totally legit?

I believe  Nikos69   bought a Techsew 2750 from him about 2 years ago. You may want to drop him a PM and see what his experience was like. Also you could do a search on this forum for ---- "industrial sewing machine man”---. You should come up with something.  

2 hours ago, TomE said:

So much for checking out the machines before they go out the door. 

The last two new machines I bought were a Juki and a Juki clone. I got them fresh off the boat so to speak, packages unopened. Saved the check over / setup fee. The Juki sewed perfectly out of the box while the clone needed a couple of small adjustments.

kgg

 

[Handstitched]

I consider myself quite lucky after reading the posts on here. 

I got my 441 clone  ( new) from  'Q Stitch' ,  Queensland. Once set up ( I was like a kid on Christmas Day)  it sewed perfect. Just a few minor adjustments to the tensions, and foot pressure,that was in 2005  .  And, to this day still works great...in both directions ( touchwood) . I've bent and broke the odd needle over the years, thats about it. 

HS

[JLSleather]

8 hours ago, TomE said:

name plate on my machine for one that says "Cobra Class 4.  Serviced by SLC and Leather Machine Co." 

"serviced by A AND B, and you had to work with it before using it.  I was gonna put a guy holding his belly from laughing, but having said it I realize tha's not at all funny

[TomE]

Now that my machine is dialed in, I'm glad I learned more about the mechanics can make adjustments.  I tinker with the walking foot movement whenever I switch to an in-line presser foot set.  The narrow feed dog and needle plate is an improvement but I filed the underneath edge of the needle plate slot to eliminate slight interference with the arm of the feed dog.  It's like maintaining a car from British Leyland.  Always tinkering. 

[Tequila]

On 2/19/2022 at 4:22 PM, jamextras said:

I'm sure that all the good things I've read about Bob Kovar are true. But my experience with him yesterday was anything but good. I was left with the strong impression that he had too many orders to be bothered with me.

You’re not the only one, I had the same experience a few weeks ago.  When I spoke to him he seemed distracted with awkward silences. 

[JLSleather]

54 minutes ago, TomE said:

 Always tinkering. 

fair enough - each his own.  Personally, when I buy a car, I don't want to "tune" it, I want to DRIVE it.

I have no objection to REPAIRING a car, though I would EXPECT that if it needs repair it's because it's USED, and it should have a corresponding price tag.  I don't pay NEW price, AND fix it.  

OH WAIT>. you bring up a GOOD point.  Now that you've made the machine do what it was SUPPOSED TO (but didn't) DO when you bought it. is it worth MORE, or LESS?  I mean, is it now ADJUSTED CORRECTLY, or is it USED? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by JLSleather

[Rubicon04]

This isnt a comforting thread to read knowing that I'll be ordering a machine in the next month but was unsure from where. And it seems everyone on my list to look at is mentioned in this thread. 

[JayEhl]

I'm still waiting from a response from Techsew customer service that I sent on the 16th.  It's just for a part and I guess it doesn't rank as importance as would a new machine inquiry but boy I can only imagine much trouble I would be if I didn't answer an email in almost a week.  I am going to give it a few more days before I send a reminder but gosh, I didn't think I had to.