Stitching

[Selvune]

First, I am a complete beginner here.  I don't think I have done any sewing/stitching since high school, which was quite a long time ago   I am practicing on some scrap leather and can't figure out why some of my stitches look to go straight across and some look like they are angled.  Am I not pulling the thread tight enough or might it be something else?  Please ignore the beginning and end as I wasn't paying attention and did it all wrong.  Also, I am referring to the one labeled 3rd., but 2nd has a similar problem beyond my holes aren't straight.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Selvune
Added a sentance.

[MtlBiker]

@Selvune - I'm in the same boat as you!  I'm trying to learn hand-stitching and it's harder than I expected.  So I'll be watching the answers you get about this and hoping to learn from them.  Luckily YouTube has a ton of good videos about this, and also the Al Strohlman book about hand-stitching is excellent.  (I'm still waiting for an order of harness needles and Ritza Tiger 1.0 thread to arrive, so for now I'm practicing with the largest harness needle Tandy had - all they had in stock - and their Tejas thread which doesn't have  a spec for the thickness.)

Out of curiosity, what did you use to make the holes for your stitches (size of chisel if you used one) and what size needle and thread are you using?  Hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the spacing between stitches is quite long, which is why I ask about the stitching chisel.

Let's hope there is good help coming.

 

 

[chuck123wapati]

it appears on some you changed which thread was in the lead you want your stitches to appear like they run from the two closest sides of the slit the ones by 3rd are crossed.

What  i do the front of the project facing right starting at the farthest hole working towards myself. Right needle in wiggle it a bit pull it through and hook that thread with your thumb and pull it towards the rear of the project insert the left needle in front of the existing thread wiggle it to open the hole pull a bit of the first thread back to make sure you didn't lance it and then pull it through. tighten you stitch evenly,   repeat. When done tamp or roll your stitch line.

 i would also suggest running a deeper groove then make sure you holes are right in it then after you finish sewing tap them down with a hammer. 

[zuludog]

Saddle stitch is meant to have a slight zig - zag or sawtooth appearance, that's why the prongs on diamond stitching chisels are slanted, and not straight across

Here are a couple of suggestions -- I assume you are using two needles -- when you pull the needles out of the holes don't pull the thread straight out at right angles to the leather, pull upwards with your left hand and downwards with your right at an angle of about 45*. This should ensure that at the start of the next stitch the thread is always set below the previous stitch -- and pull the thread a bit tighter

I stitch away from myself ..... put the right needle through first .... then the left needle below the rh thread that has emerged .... then pull the needles & thread tight as described -- left hand up and right hand down

Use a round/scratch awl to enlarge the holes if necessary, and to tease & fiddle the thread & stitches so they lie evenly.  

But have a look at YouTube videos on The Saddle Stitch; watch as many as you can manage and you'll see how other people do things

Edited February 20, 2022 by zuludog

[tsunkasapa]

As long as you do it the same EVERY time, your stitches will be consistent. As to the 'zig-zag' , 'saw tooth' effect, I've never had any of my stitching look like that in 30+ years.

[GatoGordo]

You are doing something backwards. If you notice, your thread is going from the top corner of the right hole to the bottom corner of the left hole while it should be the opposite.

In other words, your holes are like: / / / /  (correct)
but your thread is like: / / / 
while the thread should be like \ \ \

As an example, here is a sample card I made for my daughter so she can pick the thread color for her new bag.

I suggest you watch more YouTube videos to see how it is done. I had to watch several before it finally clicked.

Also, as tsunkasapa pointed out, the most important factor is to be consistent. The needles must pass in the same orientation each time and must be pulled at the same angle and tension for each stitch.

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, GatoGordo said:

As an example, here is a sample card I made for my daughter so she can pick the thread color for her new bag.

Hehe I can relate, I make bags for my daughters all the time and when it comes to picking colours, OMG talk about fussy 

[GatoGordo]

12 hours ago, Spyros said:

Hehe I can relate, I make bags for my daughters all the time and when it comes to picking colours, OMG talk about fussy 

For each project I must create a set of sample stiches as above; just laying the thread across the leather is not enough. However, she almost always picks the black thread.

[tsunkasapa]

The selection I offer is black, brown, neutral/natural. I don't play color games.

[Selvune]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:25 PM, MtlBiker said:

@Selvune - I'm in the same boat as you!  I'm trying to learn hand-stitching and it's harder than I expected.  So I'll be watching the answers you get about this and hoping to learn from them.  Luckily YouTube has a ton of good videos about this, and also the Al Strohlman book about hand-stitching is excellent.  (I'm still waiting for an order of harness needles and Ritza Tiger 1.0 thread to arrive, so for now I'm practicing with the largest harness needle Tandy had - all they had in stock - and their Tejas thread which doesn't have  a spec for the thickness.)

Out of curiosity, what did you use to make the holes for your stitches (size of chisel if you used one) and what size needle and thread are you using?  Hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the spacing between stitches is quite long, which is why I ask about the stitching chisel.

Let's hope there is good help coming.

 

I used the 4 mm Tandy diamond hole chisel set.

 

[zuludog]

Here's something you should know about Tandy stitching chisels- 

For most diamond stitching chisels the spacing is measured by the distance between the points, and the Tandy Craftool Pro chisels with the flat handles and silver/metallic finish, item code 88057 are like this

But Tandy Craftool with the round handles and black finish, item code 88046 are measured between the sides of the prongs, which means that the distance between the points is bigger; I've just measured my 88046 - 02 & - 04 and I reckon the distance between the points is 5,5mm, so you could improve your stitching by getting chisels that are actually 4mm between the points

For 4mm spacing I use John James saddler's harness needles item code L3912 size 002 and 0,6mm dia thread. Hmmmm..... you might also try better quality thread. It's not so easy to see from the picture, but your thread looks a bit rougher than that shown by GatorGordo

Ritza  25  and Twist synthetic are good threads; they, and the needles are available from  Leathercraft Supplies – Rocky Mountain Leather Supply (rmleathersupply.com) 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by zuludog

[Selvune]

20 minutes ago, zuludog said:

Here's something you should know about Tandy stitching chisels- 

For most diamond stitching chisels the spacing is measured by the distance between the points, and the Tandy Craftool Pro chisels with the flat handles and silver/metallic finish, item code 88057 are like this

But Tandy Craftool with the round handles and black finish, item code 88046 are measured between the sides of the prongs, which means that the distance between the points is bigger; I've just measured my 88046 - 02 & - 04 and I reckon the distance between the points is 5,5mm, so you could improve your stitching by getting chisels that are actually 4mm between the points

For 4mm spacing I use John James saddler's harness needles item code L3912 size 002 and 0,6mm dia thread. Hmmmm..... you might also try better quality thread. It's not so easy to see from the picture, but your thread looks a bit rougher than that shown by GatorGordo

Ritza  25  and Twist synthetic are good threads; they, and the needles are available from  Leathercraft Supplies – Rocky Mountain Leather Supply (rmleathersupply.com) 

 

Thanks for the information.  I had done research before buying anything but didn't trust my judgement, so I went to the Tandy store and asked for help and that is what they suggested I get.  The thread is also Tandy thread.  With just starting, he suggested the inexpensive thread and said once I get good (or stick with the hobby), he would suggest getting a better quality thread.  I am going to keep practicing with what I have today and when it runs out, definately get a better thread and will look into different chisels.  Thank you again.,

[Tugadude]

The spacing on the irons the OP bought is too wide for many leather items in my opinion.  I bought the same irons shortly after I began leatherworking and I didn't like the result.  I don't really use them at all anymore but I might consider using them on the inside of a turned bag or something, but not on anything where the stitching is going to be visible.  Even when you do achieve a slant the stitches aren't attractive (to me!).  Others might not feel the same.

Tandy sells several different irons.  I've gotten good results from their fine diamond pro chisels.  They have a 2.5, which is good for watch straps and wallets and a 3.0 and 3.5 which I like for bags and briefcases.

 

 

[Tugadude]

Here's a thread I started about the irons I mentioned.  Someone shows a 4.0mm diamond chisel stitch in the thread.  It is an example of what I'm talking about.  They achieved a nice slant to the stitches but in my opinion they are simply too long.

 

[zuludog]

We have all worked out our own preferences and what suits us, and we could go on & on, but that's what forums are for. I use -

For wallets - Tandy Craftool Pro chisels, 3,5mm spacing; John James L3912 size 004 needles; 0,38 to 0,45mm thread

For belts & pouches  & small to medium knife sheaths- Seiwa Diamond/Japanese style chisels 4mm spacing; JJ L3912 size 002 needles; 0,6mm thread

For axe covers and medium to large knife sheaths - Craftool stitching chisels '4mm spacing' = 5,5mm ;  sometimes JJ L3912 size 002 needles & 0,6mm thread; sometimes Tandy 'Big Eye' needles item code 1195 & 0,8mm thread. This shows the choice is not fixed, there is some variation in what is a medium knife sheath, thread & needles used, depending on what I think is best at the time

Here are some low cost suggestions - RMLS have short lengths of Ritza 25 0,6mm thread at a reasonable price

Perhaps someone in the USA can suggest a supplier for reasonably priced stitching chisels with a genuine 4mm spacing

Polish the prongs of your chisels with  a homemade polisher made by gluing fine wet & dry or abrasive paper to a lollipop stick. Say grits 500 to 1,000 in a couple of increments; there are You Tube videos. 

Rub the prongs on beeswax as you use the chisels to lubricate them and use a small block of wood to hold down the leather as you pull them out; this will reduce distortion of the leather around the holes. Just a thought.... have you waxed the thread before sewing? 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by zuludog

[GatoGordo]

While talk of chisels and threads is fun, it is not applicable to the OP's question. He needs to develop his stitching technique and his current thread and chisel set is just fine for that. Once he develops some skill, I am sure he will also develop a sense as to what type of stitching appeals to him whether it be long or short stitches, diamond, French, or round chisels, plastic or linen thread.

 

[Selvune]

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I have managed to get the angle of the stiches on both sides of the leather to be angled versus one side angled and one side straight, however my stitching is still going the wrong direction LOL.  More videos and practice are on the table.  Might run to the leather shop and have someone show me in person and tell me what I am doing wrong.

[Tugadude]

43 minutes ago, GatoGordo said:

While talk of chisels and threads is fun, it is not applicable to the OP's question. He needs to develop his stitching technique and his current thread and chisel set is just fine for that. Once he develops some skill, I am sure he will also develop a sense as to what type of stitching appeals to him whether it be long or short stitches, diamond, French, or round chisels, plastic or linen thread.

 

Sure it is applicable.  What I pointed out is the the OP may not be satisfied even if they use the irons they have with proper technique.  I'm sure someone out there like the look of those long stitches, but they leave me totally cold.  

If this is a beginner, as stated, then they really are going to want something closer to 3.0mm as it will have more application to the sorts of things beginners tend to make, key fobs, wallets, etc.  

And yes, after gaining some experience, there are all sorts of options to consider.  

Just now, Selvune said:

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I have managed to get the angle of the stiches on both sides of the leather to be angled versus one side angled and one side straight, however my stitching is still going the wrong direction LOL.  More videos and practice are on the table.  Might run to the leather shop and have someone show me in person and tell me what I am doing wrong.

Hopefully the folks at your local store know how to properly saddle stitch.  If they do, then that's a great idea.  While you are there ask to see other iron options and have them discuss the features and benefits with you.  Perhaps they'll let you try some of the other options?

[Selvune]

2 hours ago, GatoGordo said:

While talk of chisels and threads is fun, it is not applicable to the OP's question. He needs to develop his stitching technique and his current thread and chisel set is just fine for that. Once he develops some skill, I am sure he will also develop a sense as to what type of stitching appeals to him whether it be long or short stitches, diamond, French, or round chisels, plastic or linen thread.

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Was a little worried how much of an investment I was really going to need for just starting out to learn technique and see if I even enjoy it.

 

Regardless of all the different feedback above, I just want to say this forum is very polite and understanding with a newbies questions.  I have been on forums for other hobbies (miniature painting) and they are BRUTAL even when you say it is the first time painting a miniature after a 32 year break.  

 

Well, I believe I have the stitching now going in the correct direction.  Not the prettiest, but the right direction...I hope.  When I say left versus right, it was the side in the stitching pony, diamonds facing away and up from me.  I started stitching away from me and stitched towards my body.  Am I reading the directly correctly now?  They go up on the right side and down on the left side.

[Tugadude]

If you haven't yet, make sure to tap those stitches down with a smooth-faced hammer.  That will help close up the holes a bit and flatten the thread.  I think it will make them look a little better.

[tsunkasapa]

11 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

If you haven't yet, make sure to tap those stitches down with a smooth-faced hammer.  That will help close up the holes a bit and flatten the thread.  I think it will make them look a little better.

I think a thicker thread will help as well. But for now, it's looking good.

[Hardrada]

Add to your immediate watch list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQK8R0oYT8o

[GatoGordo]

4 hours ago, Selvune said:

Well, I believe I have the stitching now going in the correct direction.  Not the prettiest, but the right direction...I hope.  When I say left versus right, it was the side in the stitching pony, diamonds facing away and up from me.  I started stitching away from me and stitched towards my body.  Am I reading the directly correctly now?  They go up on the right side and down on the left side.

That is a big improvement in a short time.

[Spyros]

^ yeah that's about as good as most people need.   

I mean, you can still  engage in a "who's stitching is most slanted" competition if you want, but to me that's a futile cause.  Actual users and customers, outside of leatherworking forums, don't photograph their bags with macro lenses and then blow them up on computer screens to check the stitching.  Only we do that 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Spyros

[Selvune]

5 hours ago, Tugadude said:

If you haven't yet, make sure to tap those stitches down with a smooth-faced hammer.  That will help close up the holes a bit and flatten the thread.  I think it will make them look a little better.

Do I need a cobblers hammer or will the flat side of a ball peenhammer work or my rawhide mallet?

2 hours ago, GatoGordo said:

That is a big improvement in a short time.

Ty

Edited February 22, 2022 by Selvune