Why Two Thread Sizes?

[SteelcityK9Cop]

I have read on a number of different forum posts that people are using different thread sizes for holster making... I am curious why. For example 277 top thread with 207 in the bobbin.

Edited August 10, 2014 by SteelcityK9Cop

[gary]

I don't use a machine but there have been previous posts on LW and I gather one reason for thinner in the bobbin is so the bobbin holds more thread and needs changing less often.

[Troy I]

Good question. ..I think it may give a better look on the back side + what Gary said above. Don't know for sure, I have not tried it yet...waiting to use up some of my 277 thread, so I can order more from cowboy bob.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Troy I

[Kevin]

On the old needle and awl machines, the manuals said to do it to pull a tighter stitch. I assume it is the same on newer machines, I do it .

[Red Cent]

I also replaced the 277 on bottom with 207. Most of us has had some difficulties learning our machines and I can't rightly tell you the thread was the problem. However; I ain't about to go back and find out.

[Northmount]

277 is too large a diameter for some bobbins, such as cowboy 227 and techsew 2700 and related clones.

Tom

[GerryR]

The fact that the bobbin holds more of the smaller thread is not really the issue, but is a small benefit. The smaller bobbin thread allows the machine to pull the thread up into the work more easily and consistently. I know that on my machine, using 207 top and bottom results in an occasional loop not being pulled into the work; not so when using 138 on the bottom. Unfortunately, the strength of the stitching is only as strong as the thinnest thread, so if you are using 277 on top and 207 on the bottom, the 207 determines the stitch strength.

[Techsew Ron]

The fact that the bobbin holds more of the smaller thread is not really the issue, but is a small benefit. The smaller bobbin thread allows the machine to pull the thread up into the work more easily and consistently. I know that on my machine, using 207 top and bottom results in an occasional loop not being pulled into the work; not so when using 138 on the bottom. Unfortunately, the strength of the stitching is only as strong as the thinnest thread, so if you are using 277 on top and 207 on the bottom, the 207 determines the stitch strength.

Agreed. The main benefit is to ease the machine in pulling the thread up into the hole created by the needle. Side benefit is more thread in the bobbin so you don't have to change it quite as often.

Ron

[SteelcityK9Cop]

Ron... I understand what you are saying. Out of curiosity... with a powerful machine like a 441, why would the tension, if adjusted properly, not take care of the issue if the thread sizes were the same?

[GerryR]

Not Ron, but the power of the machine doesn't really have much to do with the tension setting, once it is set up for the particular article you are sewing. Once the tension is adjusted and you are sewing along and come to a more dense area in the leather, the tension may not be enough to pull the same size bottom thread into the leather. With the smaller bobbin thread and the bigger needle hole (sized for the top thread), the tension required is more consistent when the leather density changes; the larger hole offers less resistance when pulling up the smaller bobbin thread. On thicker leather using same size threads, a higher tension may still bury the bobbin loop, perhaps at a different depth, but on thinner leather, the higher tension may bring the bobbin thread to the top and too little tension may not bring it into the leather at all. So with thicker leather, you can crank up the tension to bury all the loops, but the thinner stuff is less forgiving to the tension adjustment. At least this has been my experience.

[SteelcityK9Cop]

Thanks Gerry!

[George B]

When I started I built western saddles, the person who schooled me used 277 top and 207 bottom. He explained to me that it had to do with the backstitch and getting two stitches in the same hole without cutting the thread. When I use 277 top and 207 bottom I increase needle size on my Artisan Toro to a #230.

For the last 4 years I have been stitching all my gun leather items with a 207 top and 207 bottom with a #200 needle. I have yet to have a stitch break and like the fact that the thinner thread makes the item the focal point and not the stitching.

While searching for thread last year I ran across a chart that explained the thread sizes and when and how much the thread becomes the focal point of what you are making and how much. The larger the thread the more attention that drawn to it.

When making tack or saddles I go up to the 277 to make the thread part of the saddle's look.