lilpep

actually on second thought super glue to keep from fraying is a good idea !!!

megabit great job !! their is a strand right at at front of heal close to the top tht looks diferent but it works. to try to answer your question about the goucho pattern it is basically because at the end/s of the nose button if you did a multiple string knot when you turned back into it you had a parallel split from under the bits. grant explains this well the pattern can be chahged by changing the way the bits are nested at the end s of the button. in this same manner the pattern can be alternated in the nose button if you wanted to make sections of the button in different paterns for example, but this is another subject. if you did a long button in one string or with two then the way you entered the button in the second interweave would change the lead you were paralleling but i dont think you did it this way because it would be very apparent from the get go and you would have noticed it right away after the first pass. well im rambling too much any questions just haalla !!

BRock if you want to do something that looks like a turks head it would be a footrope knot. an excellent example or tut is in KHWW.net under extended diamond knot or as part of dan alaskas LIttle lump knot tutorial at the alaskamuseum of knots. it can easily be done. all it is similar to a multiple string nose button just crown the leads and wall at the botom then proceed a as in a multiple string nose button. the other thing you i might do it crown them down and this will help build the base for your heal knot. hope it helps

http://www.furandhide.com/ centralia hide and fur has horse in hides and in if you call them they might cut you a wider strip. i bought some lace before and it was good. www.chichesterinc.com these guys also have some never bougth kind of pricy. nice Work Alan post a pic when you do the "remates" at the pomel or are you going to do something else like "envoltura" ?

yep yep i had the same thought Rob. you need to get more westerntack tips also it has great button knots and alot more stuff , and dont forget intor to turks heads. it is way !! more than an intro. Brian (knothead) no need to thank me. i didnt come up with anything special. and FYI for all the others if you repeat the run list and increase everything by one you can make it a three pass. take care ya'll

dont even worry about the "author i dont like to mention" but if you must look at the thread about braiding books. about your other comment LOL

now let me tell you how i really feel !!!! hahaha no not really i think you made the best choice. i have a thing with people who reply to an email i sent to them and they reply my website will have the info you need, when the point is i had to ask becasue i couldnt find that info on the page. but any way haha you will definately like the hall books. just to change the pace a little i think i should mention that alot of braiders at some point in time we want to learn more and look for the book that will help us learn that little bit extra, i noticed that manny people including myself get stuck with the saem herring bone and pinneaple knot and the same 8plait and so forth. i would recommend every one to look into rope work and all those sailors knots and stuff. invest in the Ashley book of knots and take a gander at it. learn structure and technique not just ovrs and unders (recipies) when you do this a 4,6 or any size pinneaple dont matter casue its just two extra bits. i my self did alot of research in places like KHWW.net brian is a great guy and their is alot of info in his site. the pinneaple knot forum.com and other yahoo groups that deal with knotwork are a great resource. and the best part is ITS FREE !!!! well take care all and as soon as i get home i will show something off just so im not a name. later

roo4u sorry to keep butting in. as i read again you mentioned you can tie all the knots in Bruce grants book. i over looked that particular detail which is very important i think because it gives insight to how much you know allready. definetly dont waste your money on GH books like entiendo said they are "so damn expensive". since i take it you are pretty familiar with turks heads and all the braids that are common amongst braiders, then you will love intro to turks heads. dont let the title fool you it has basic stuff but will open your eyes to ALOT more. the buttons section in more western tack tips is something you will love also. Hall teaches the basics and progresses to more advanced material in a manner that is easey enough to follow. the ilustrations are good and im sure you will find them interesting. from the begining of these books you will notice he is an intelectual and more than just a braider he had a great understanding of knot structure and theory. the great thing is even though he has a great understanding of things his "recepies for knots along with ilustrations lend themselves to beginners(i know you are not). i just have alot of good to say about him and his books. if you need more info read the comments that Martin Combs has on his website and if you want give Martin a call he is the nicest guy you will ever meet. infact Martin is more of a decorative rope/knoting kind of guy and a retired service member, he uses intro to turks heads alot and recommends it aswell. enough i think i may be over doing it. sorry

nice work !! and nothing better than putting it to use. keeep on braiding

for about 60some dollars you ca get the Tom Hall books compared to about 1 one of the other books. i have only seen the index of the the other books so i can say how they are in fact but the index didnt show ANYTHING !!!! that any other book i've seen. and let me tell you i have ALOT of books in both spanish and english. western tack tips and more western tack tips have IN DETAIL explanations for bosals and reins as well as LOTS and LOTS of headstalls with measurements and maaaaannnnyyy designs. the briding content and buttons are far more supperior than any other book i've ever seen. Hall didnt just learn from Grants book and then rewrote some of it in his own words. he was actally a great knotter and braider who collaborated with the late George Shaake. his understanding and expertice are far above most people. he also shows some tack in strap leather just as a bonus and also has alot of stitching patterns. as for intro to turk heads is concerned if you can find a better turkshead book let me know so i can buy it. after this i dont think i have to explain any more where i stand. their is no comparison between both authors in my opinion. Hall !!!!!!!!

TOM HALL !!!!!!!!! i second KNOTHEAD on this issue. get the tom hall books before you spend money on anything else. you can leave out the turks head work book if you want but westerntack tips and more western tack tips have ALOT in them. intro to turkheads is great to learn pinneaples and variations that is the meat and potatoes of this book, it has more on other knots that are usefull. as for Ron Edwards books i really am not a huge fan but dont knock em either i guess i'm neutral about him. Edwards has a leather worker aproach to some of his books and has projects. i have Bush leather work and bush craft 8 as well as advanced leather work round knots and stuff but like he mentions in the beggining it is not geared for the begginer. for the money intro to turk heads is going to help any one improve alot more than this book will. well looks like i'm blabbing alot. theirs my two cents <BR><BR>PS. Martin Combs is also one of the best sources for R E books. he is in the states and is cheaper most times than ordering from the Ramskull press.

no problem, hope it helps i have it and really didn't see much of interest in it. if you dont speak potuguese or atleast spanish it realy doesnt much more in content than the encyclopedia of rawhide and leather braiding by Bruce Grant. I think the other link that Knothead posted is for Leather braiding by grant. but not sure. i'll check it out later but i allready got it anyway. take care. if you really want some good stuff invest in Tom Hall books 60 bucks will be better than buying the GH books(dont even wanna write her name).

http://www.zshare.net/download/65369757eff2ddd3/ here is the link you are looking for it still works i think i tried it half way just to make sure. if you cant down load it from here then try www.khww.net they might have it in their downloads section i gave them the heads up on it a while back and i think they added it to their links. good luck hope it works

i have to agree with every one else these are really nice . keep on braiding like that and youll yave to start your own little online store.

<BR><BR>hello seven i read your post and thought i would ad my 2 cents from what you describe it seem sto me that your foundation or base knot is not the problem but it would have helped if it was a bit larger than what you started out with. if you followed Grants book you made a 7x6 and added two interweaves. you have two options in my opinion. the first would be to add more interweaves and take it to 04u4 or even 05u5 this can be done by following the same technique or pattern for the third interweave. the second option is by adding a second interweave of the same size as the base knot. this sounds strange i know but it is very possible. in woolery's book he talks about interweaves and it would be the one that sits on the inside and sticks out on the outside on the other end of the knot. i particularly dont like the way he explains but thats my opinion. by adding a second interweave of the same size as your base knot you are making a different knot but in the same pinneaple family. the thing here is that you already have two 5x6 interweaves and this would make it a little confusing. i would suggest losening your pervious interweaves and your base knot so you can accomodate a fourth or fifth pass to your knot. it would be good for you to invest about 26dlrs and buy the Tom Hall book " introduction to turks heads" this is a jewel of a book and personally i recommend it over any other book to learn about turks heads. it would help you understand the different types of interweaves and the pinneaple classes their is. for eexample the heel knot in grants book is a type 1 pinneaple of three passes (if you add another interweave it would be a four pass) if you were to add the "outside interweave" like in woolery's book it would be a type 2 of four passes. this might sound complicated but its "knot" so much. other than adding the extra interweaves you would have to take apart your heel knot and increase the 7x6 base knot into a 9x8 to ad two more parts and make it longer so the bottom gets covered up well, i think that the with of the ground work for the heel knot would still require 4 or 5 passes to cover every thing up nicely. by increasing the bits the six point star like apearrance of the ends of your heel knot would look like a 8 point star and by adding parts to the knot it would help cover the length of the heel. increasing the knot would also help it close more on the ends and that way you would not have a big opening at the bottom. if you increase the base knot to 11parts x 10 bits you might get to crowded at the ends depending on the with of your strands so i wouldnt recommend it. either way just to try and salvage it you can put more passes/interweaves into your heal knot but lossening and adding one more will create a few more problems like distortion and if you are working with rawhide you would have to retemper the whole knot to get it to work loose. in short i guess you have one more option which would be starting over with a 9x8 and adding more than 2 interweaves (making it a four or five pass). hope this helps to clear it up some. send me an email and i can get you hooked up with what you need on the T Hall book, its a freebe. jorge.a.rodriguezespino@us.army.mil. take care

clintsims@gmail.com this is the email for whitebuff he makes one of the best combo cutter spliter beveler outher. mnny ahave given great feed back and im sure he will ship to you if you make arrangement with him to do so. if you want to take a look at it follow this link http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15534 hope yuou get what you want but the one in wuestion is very good. you can also look fof thee RM williams cuttr and splier they are twoo separate units at about us$100 but they ship from australia where he is from. persinally i would like to have whitebuffs. but the other have gotten good review also. hope it helped happy shopping and one word of advice dont let price deter you from buying what you want or you will end up buying somehting you might not like to save a coule of bucks. lilpep

hello megabit dont want to intrude in the thread just that i saw the knife and i think it is great !!! looks like damascus and the bone bone handle looks great. but if your going to cover it up since you have a bunch of lace already cut up, ui would sugest doing soem fid work on the handle. you would just need to make two groves at the bottom near and close to the top and follow the tutorial in the link below. the page is actually in spanish but google will translate it for you fair enough . just cover the begining and the end witht the fake ring knot they call 'remate" which is essentially crowning over two and walling under two. if you have any questions let me know i speak spanish and i can help clear it up for you. good luck with it and great choice in the knife i make my own knives every no and then so thats why i like it so much .http://www.armasblancas.com.ar/foros/el-taller-de-soguero/6047-tejiendo-un-cabo-paso-paso.html

hey Bubba just my two cents if you really want to make tack then just buy the Encyclopedia of rawhide and leather braiding its a couple of bucks more but in the long run you will want to learn how to make "stuff" no tjust braids and knots. i started with this book and alot of well known braiders out there quote it as their begginings. it basically has the other two books incorporated into it along with some adittional notes the author included in it. it was his last book on braiding before he passed away. really recommend it even for begginers some other books can teach you different but its like anything it all depends on your effort. i actually have numerous books on tack making and several quote this same author. well enough rambling i sound like a salesman. good luck

very curios to see it, pictures pleeeeeeaaaase. sound like the bull flank i made for a friend, that was a project also, so i can sort of feel your pain.

i heard from John Turner, i wish i could have met him but i have T Halls books and atleast thats how i found out about him and yes his work was great !!! any one who reads this look up Shaake and John Turners webpage will come up he made that page in honor of Shaake and offers ALL the isues of the braider on CD for $5. dlrs ONLY GET THEM and help support him he just wants to get Shaakes work out ther so it wont be lost. and it wont hurt to have extra matterial for your self.

hey clint thats great to hear the last time i posted my " hello" i was still down range. im home on RR but im in WA kind of far huh/ i wish i could go home but i cant (el paso) i might have taken a tripdown to see your whips. i've been into making knives for a bitt and all i really braided was a bull flank for a friend but it was in para cord. let me get back down range and i will email you my wife will kill me for buying new toys. he he. nice to hear from you take care

i have a questionfor all. i had alot of problems making turks head a while back and loooked and looked and loked some more on the internet and finally found goldenknots.com he is a jeweler who makes knotted rings and bracelets along wth other stuff but my point is he has great tutorial on how to tie THs "in hand" from a 5x4 and shows you how to increase the knots to make a 7x6 9x8 an the same principals i learned fromhim can be used to make larger knots. all of these are interweavable in both hearing bone and gaucho knots as well as pinneaples which are hering bones but with nested bits any way. i've been reading several posts on books in this forum and i havent read of any one mention TOM HALL . he has great books with unique buttons, terminal knots and has a great turks head book "introduction to turksheads" this is by far one of the best books y have ever baught. it is a must have if you want to make tack. "western tack tips" and more western tck tips" should be on anyones shelf if they want to make tack. between B. Grants and T. Halls' books i personally beleive nobdy could need any other book to learn how to make anythig fron bosals to reins. let me clarify that i don't have gales books but i really dont feel the need becase i learned more than i can remember from the above mentioned books. this is just my two cents but for those that do have her books and love them more power to you. besides the books i mentioned cost half of what i've seen gales books sell for. i will say that only a couple of people carry T. halls books but i got them from Martin Combs (the nicest person i've ever met) and i'm deployed but he helped me ALOT he is a great source for R. Edwards books also.

i for one am fluent in spanish and to tell you the truth i have the book and it was one of those i will put on my "for reference only" stack . it really doesnt have great pictures and the argentine spanish is more castilian spanish so good luck if you dont speak fluent spanish. the terminology is very diferent that what english speaking braiders us also. dont look for a bit or part discription in any of the turks heads or even look for turks head in the book. this is what is called a botton or pasador and some of the pinneaple nots are called bombitas. whats really funny though is that i didnt notice any gaucho interweaves ha ha . but if you buy the book its actually three books in one. the author worte the first title as a reveiw or sort of documentary for an association that wanted to publish traditional things of the era and "sogueria" (Leather braiding) was the a big thing at the time. it still is in argentina i know because i personnaly know several argentine braiders and post on one forum that they have a section on braiding, but mostly they do raw hide in very thin strings. over all it is a good reference book and dont worry they cant get their hands on it any easier than we can i actually got it easeir than some of them. their are several vendors on amazon that carry it. hope this helps but i would buy it again becasue of the bit i did get from it especially on reatas, also its litterary value.

hey clint i emailed you a while back when i was going to start the braiding class down range but i was out for a while are you going to post another one soon, let me know please!!

ZANS hello my name is Jorge i am not a big time braider but when i first started all this braiding and knotting i had your same question and it took a lot of time to get this question answered. i will try to save you some time and share what i learned. first. in rawhide the strength of the sting is in the flesh side and and this is true for leater. the dermis wich is the outermost part of the leather and RH is always the strong side. in the argentine braiders down ther often say the reason to bevel is to make the strings more flexible but then they braid with really fine strings also and also they soften or brake in the rawhide before they use it. second. i found out that when you braid leather the when you bevel the flesh side which is the norm, it will make a much nicer braid as the strands will lay up against each other alot better and you wont be able to see the flesh side along the edges where the strings come into contact with each other. beveling in leather and NOT beveling is the differece between knight and day. in raw hide it serves the multiple purposes but it is also the same principal. beveling will make it alot smother (the braid) since alot of the baids in horse tack made with rawhide are round. should you not bevel the rawhide it will be rough when finished. although you bevel the "skin side" on raw hide it helps to make a better "lay' or in other word the strings will lay against each other alot better and it will be smooth. third you made quite an investment in all the stuff you baught and thats great !!! i had to make most of my stuff. i emaild Clint a couple of times about his cutter and got some pics it looks great although he said he made it for kangaroo leather because he makes whips he mantioned it will work with some thin raw hide. use it and if you dont like it email me and i might buy it from you but i dint see that likely Ja Ja. notes. when you bevel the raw hide dont take it down to the flesh side just take the corner off because like i said the strenght is in the grain side. and thats what you want to preserve. and if you buy any of the Bruce Grant books, BUY the ENCYCLOPEDIA it has all his books incorporated in it. the R woolery book is good but read the BG books first they will help alot and if you want i have some e-books i can share but you will have to email me jorge.a.rodriguezespino@us.army.mil if im wrong please any one correct me !! cause i dont want to stear anyone wrong. and if you buy any of the Bruce Grant books