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Everything posted by Wizcrafts
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What Machine To Sew Wallet Interiors
Wizcrafts replied to Chief31794's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
Here's the insider skinny on straight stitch machines and whether they can or can't sew leather. The basics are outlined below. Can the machine accept a leather point needle in sizes 18/110 or larger? Does the throat plate have a large enough hole to clear a #18 or larger needle? Does the hook have enough clearance to allow #69 or larger bonded thread to pass freely around the bobbin case/basket? Are the tension springs on top and in the bobbin case/basket strong enough to properly tension #69 bonded nylon or polyester thread? Are the teeth on the feed dog large enough to grip the leather and pull it under the presser foot? If not, is there a heavy duty feed dog that fits your model? Is the coil spring over the presser foot bar strong enough to hold down the leather as the needle ascends and forms the lockstitch? Is the machine capable of sewing spacings of 6 stitches per inch or longer? Does the motor on the machine allow you to sew slowly on demand? Most leather work is sewn at speeds between 1 to 5 stitches per second. It may be difficult to hold your foot just so on a clutch motor to feather it for 1 stitch per second (I can do it). Clutch motors can be retrofitted with pulleys 2" diameter or less to slow them down. If your machine has a servo motor, does it have enough torque to penetrate your leather at the slowest speed you want to sew at? Many servos do not possess this punching power when dialed down. Can you replace the standard presser foot with either a full roller foot conversion kit, or at least a flat foot with long rollers protruding out the bottom? If no to the above, can you at least fit it with a Teflon foot? In my case, I applied #5 and #10 to my ancient Singer 31-15 to get it to sew vests, wallet interiors and similar thin leather items. I also obtained a stronger top tension beehive shaped spring for the top tension disks and a stronger presser foot spring. The stock springs were inadequate for my leather sewing purposes. My machine readily takes #18 needles and #69 bonded nylon thread. I bought a 3 piece roller foot conversion kit, which includes a single row feed dog with aggressive teeth and matching throat plate, with a hole large enough for a #20 needle. I also bought a standard 3 row heavy duty feed dog with aggressive teeth that can be used with any flat foot. You can read a previous discussion on LWN about the Singer 591 and what I learned when I tried one out. -
Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
I already answered that in one of my last replies on the first page of your topic. "Your machine uses standard walking foot system 135x16 (leather point) and 135x17 (round point) needles. They are widely available is sizes 14 through 24." -
What Machine To Sew Wallet Interiors
Wizcrafts replied to Chief31794's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
I use whatever upholstery grade machine I have on hand, with #69 thread and a #16 or 18 max leather point needle. Currently, I have a Singer 139 long body, flat bed walking foot machine in the shop. It is functionally similar to a Singer 111w155, except it has been retrofitted with a large LU size Juki hook. It doesn't have reverse. TBT, I could even sew 6 oz of wallet interiors on my Singer 31-15, with #69 thread. I'd crank down the foot pressure some more and maybe change over to a roller equipped or Teflon foot. If you plan on doing any repairs to cloth garments, a bottom feed straight stitch machine is a must. Mine is equipped with a servo motor. -
I have currently four sewing machines in my leather shop and would have more if I had more space. Only one machine is capable of sewing saddle skirting, holsters, sheathes, saddle bags, weight belts, bridles, double bridle leather belts and dog collars. That machine is a Cowboy CB4500. Not only can it sew over 3/4 inches, but it does so with some of the largest sizes of bonded nylon and polyester thread in current production. Most of the time I use #207 or #277 thread, top and bottom. This is beyond the capabilities of all my other machines. I occasionally use #346 bonded nylon thread on projects 1/2 inch and thicker. This requires a #26 or #27 needle, which is larger than what is available for lesser machines. My machine, the Cowboy CB4500, is known as a 441 clone, along with the Cobra Class 3 and 4, the Techsew 4100 and 5100 and other similar triple feed machines with custom brand names that are all based on the Juki TSC-441. Price wise, a machine like mine, fully loaded with every available accessory, plus a full range of sizes of needles, lots of bobbins, oil and thread, sells new for about $2700 + shipping, or roughly, $3000. It has a 16.5 inch cylinder arm that can hold a saddle. The only comparable heavy stitcher currently on the market, with compound feed walking feet and a smooth feed dog and a 16 inch arm and 3/4+ inch capacity, is the Adler 205-374. It sells for about $6,000 to $6,500 at Weaver Leather. It is now being phased out in favor of a newly redesigned heavy stitcher with an integral direct drive motor. It is going to be so expensive that you may need to mortgage your house to afford one. I have left out two other classes of heavy leather stitchers. One is the bottom feed only CB2500, which is identical to the Techsew 3650, both of which are based on the design of the ancient Singer 45k25. These 10.5" arm machines can handle thread sizes 138 through 346 and thicknesses up to 7/16 inch. The material is moved by aggressive teeth on the feed dog on the bottom. The presser foot is either static, dragging along the top layer, or a huge roller that revolves as the work moves along. These machines can be bought for about $1300 to $1400, plus shipping. The second alternative machine is the relatively new in between walking foot design sold in the US as the Cowboy CB3200 and in Canada as the Techsew 3800. These are triple feed walking foot machines with smooth feed dogs and 10.5 inch arms. They are rated at a capacity of 1/2 inch, or slightly more if properly setup. They sell for about $1600 plus shipping. I sincerely doubt that you are going to see any of these machines for sale on your local Craigslist. However, we have a Classifieds section of the forum where individual members sell off used or rebuilt sewing machines and other leather working machinery. I hope this isn't too cornfusing. But, facts are facts and your typical upholstery shop or tailor's machine isn't going to sew saddles.
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Old and worn out patchers are notorious for ever-shortening maximum stitch lengths. If your old 29-4 can give 6 stitches per inch at 1/8 inch, be grateful. Don't feel too bad if you get even shorter stitches at its 1/4 inch maximum thickness. This is caused by excessive wear in the driving cam and ring, on the bottom of the driving head piece. You can see this clearance by lifting the presser foot with the hand lift lever and wiggling the foot forward and backward. Any appreciable slack translates into lost maximum stitch length. A pristine stock Singer 29 patcher is able to sew 5 stitches per inch into about 1/8" of leather. One that has been built or rebuilt to the absolute minimum functioning clearance in the drive cam and ring can deliver 5 stitches per inch at 1/4 inch.
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Do what I outlined and the outer foot will be forced to lift by the inside foot making contact with the feed dog. They are interconnected inside the faceplate on a pivoting double crank. The big arm on the back with a large bolt loosens the position of the inside foot. Position it to make contact at the same time as the needle's point and tighten it back down. Gotta go, bye.
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Unthread the needle first. Clear the thread completely out of the bobbin basket and below it. When it is totally clear, press down on the safety clutch button on the bed of the machine, closest to the bobbin case. Turn the wheel away from you until the clutch engages with a snap. Let go of the button and rotate the wheel in the normal ccw direction. The hook should now meet the needle as it begins its upstroke. Rethread the needle and test.
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Power off the machine first. Remove the top thread from the needle. Hand wheel the flywheel towards you until the needle meets the top plane of the feed dog. Loosen the bolt on the upper crank arm emitting from behind the left side of the head, using the largest metric wrench supplied with your machine. Manually lower the inside alternating foot until it touches the feed dog. Tighten the bolt on the crank arm. Rotate the wheel and see if the outside foot lifts as the inside foot moves with the needle. Assuming it does lift, you can adjust the amount of lift by moving the other crank that comes out near the middle of the rear of the machine. Loosen the nut on the crank in the rear-middle so it can slide up and down on the curved slot. Move it up to more lift, or down for less. Tighten down the screw on the lift control crank when you have enough alternating lift. If you still can't get an equal amount of lift between the inside and outside feet, the presser bar may be out of adjustment. Or, it may be hanging up on the chain or an inside part.
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Stickandtin; Look at the banner ads on the top of every page on LWN. There are quite a lot that are leading to industrial sewing machine dealers who support the forums through advertising. All of them are reputable and very knowledgeable dealers. Click through and see what each has to offer for the types of sewing you want to do. All of our member-dealers ship at a reasonable price. Most can be reached on the phone, during their business hours.
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Looking For An Industrial Machine... Questions
Wizcrafts replied to C Schomer's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
The Adler 105 is a step up from the Pfaff upholstery grade machine and is a step below the (Adler 205 or Juki 441 or the 441 clones) heavy leather stitchers many of us here use. The two machines your cousin is selling are perfect for starting in the sewing business. The Pfaff 545 is a superb upholstery machine that sews leather up to 3/8 inch, or 7/16 inch, depending on which needle "system" it has been setup to use. It is best limited to using bonded thread sizes 46 through 138, although it might be able to handle #207 once in a while. The Adler 105 can sew up to about 1/2 inch and should be used with thread sizes 138, 207, or 277, with respective leather point needle numbers 23 (160), 24 (180), or 25 (200). -
The Juki LU-563 (and small bobbin 562) were designed and built using 1980's technology. Things have changed markedly since then. Even the feed dog system is different on new Juki machines (rectangular drive). Adjustments are easier to make and return to. The hooks are much higher quality. Reversing actually sews into the same holes on newer Juki, compared to the 563s that I owned, and forever had to adjust. But, if you can find a later edition of the LU-563, that has not been abused and was properly setup and adjusted, it would make a good starter machine for an upholstery shop. Older walking foot machines with reverse levers tended to float their stitch length at higher operating speeds, limiting their usefulness to about 25 stitches per second, maximum. Newer machines have conquered this and will allow one to sew longer stitches at 2500 stitches per minute, or about 41 stitches per second. At these speeds, long runs on boat covers, awnings, tents, banners, couch covers, etc, can be done more quickly. In professional upholstery, time is money. While upholsters (especially cloth only) prefer to sew at very high speeds, leather crafters cannot do so. Any leather other than genuine upholstery hides tends to heat up the needle and burn the thread at any rate faster than about 10 stitches per second. When I sew long cloth or vinyl jobs at work, I turn the speed dial on the FS-550 to maximum and floor the foot pedal. My edge guide takes care of keeping the lines straight.
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All DNU-1541 machines have a reverse palm lever under the stitch length dial. This model is in current production and is a high quality machine. The old LU-563 is ancient by today's Juki standards. The 1541 has a double capacity bobbin. The only Juki that outperforms it is the LU-1508N or NH. They sell for about $2,200, plus or minus, with a servo motor installed. An upholstery shop with skilled sewers might prefer a clutch motor with a large pulley, for constant high speed operation, where time is money. This would save about $50 off the price of an assembled machine and table. I would recommend the servo, especially the Family Sew 550s. It is easily controllable from about 1.5 stitches per second, up to maybe 25 per second. All depends on the diameter of the motor pulley.
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Juki sewing machines are made in Japan, as I believe are Seiko. The most popular current Juki model for upholstery and medium weight leather sewing is the DNU-1541s. They sell for around $1600 - $1800. You probably won't find much that's any better at that price point. Check with our advertiser-dealers first before you buy from parts unknown. Dealer support can be the difference between a day or so, versus a week or more, of downtime when something goes wrong.
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Cb3200 Breaking Needle Thread In Reverse
Wizcrafts replied to RoosterShooter's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
Sometimes, wrapping the thread once around the needle will stop thread breakage and skipping problems caused by left needle deflection. It's worth a try and if it works, is a quick fix. -
Once you clean and lube it, then replace any badly worn parts, you are going to love the machine. Just remember that it is a patcher, not a production machine and not a holster machine either. The correct needle systems are 29x4 or 135x16. The original design of the 29x4 is no longer made. Now, everybody has switched to 135x16 needles. Also, don't break it by using thick thread. Stay with T90 or T70. Needle sizes 100, 110 and 120 and 125 should handle those thread sizes just fine.
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The Singer 29 machines are known in the shoe trade as patchers. They are used to repair shoe and boot uppers, to sew patches onto vests, repair purse straps and even install zippers into leather garments. Because they have universal feed and a very long, narrow snout, a patcher can sew things over and onto a pocket without sewing it shut. The limitations are the extra small bobbins and low lift of the presser foot. A Singer patcher's foot may lift up to 5/16" as it operates, but cannot sew that high. It requires some clearance to pull the material along and jump forward for the next stitch. Thus, I find Singer patchers are really only effective at sewing 1/4 inch of leather. One might be able to eek out a tad more on webbing, or vinyl that is slicker, by helping the machine feed the work. I wouldn't do this with any leather that is easily marked by the teeth on the foot. While it is possible to load #138 thread into these "bigger" bobbin models, it only goes a short distance relative to standard walking foot machines. This size thread stresses the machine beyond its design criteria and will cause premature wear on the entire drive and take-up system. Replacement parts aren't cheap, nor are they made by Singer anymore. I find that the current offshore parts are not a good fit in my two patchers and require modifications. To avoid wearing out a patcher, try to limit your thread size to #92 (T90) maximum. If you don't require any more holding power than 11 pounds per stitch, use #69 bonded thread, which goes much farther and creates less wear and tear of the machine.
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Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
The #18 needle is the biggest you'll want to use with #69 thread. The #20 needle is for #92 bonded thread. If you want to sew with #138 thread, get some #23 needles. Use leather point only for anything tougher than garment or light chap leather. -
Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
I neglected to mention in my last reply that the kind of thread (little spools of cotton or polyester) used in domestic sewing machines is smaller and softer than most thread used in walking foot industrial machines. It is normally sewn with needle sizes 11, 12 and 14, with 14 being the largest needle of the three. In contrast, a #14 needle is close to the smallest size usable in a walking foot machine, like the CB227R. The springs and take-up mechanism are not usually balanced for such soft, thin cotton thread, because upholsters and leather workers deal in much heavier threads. -
Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
That changes things regarding the range of thread and needles you can use. We thought you had a big Cowboy CB3200, 3500, 4500, etc. Your machine is an upholstery grade walking foot machine, using a smaller size and range of needles and not capable of sewing with anything heavier than #138 on top and in the bobbin. There is a possibility that it will handle #207 on top, depending on how it was set up by the seller. Your machine uses standard walking foot system 135x16 (leather point) and 135x17 (round point) needles. They are widely available is sizes 14 through 24. There may be some dealers who even have smaller and larger needles in this system, which is 1.75" long. Your machine is much smaller than the big "441" type most of us thought you had and our descriptions were off the mark. You still only have one tension disk for the top thread. However, since the machine uses smaller needles, you can buy variegated thread (multi-colored) and use the appropriate needle for it. As for needle/thread sizes, if you took a sewing class at Joann Fabrics, they mainly use domestic machines, with the exception of the long body quilters' machines, which are a step up. All of the domestic sewing machines can handle very small and soft thread. Zig-zag home machines accept a twin needle and some may even have a second tensioner on top for a second thread. Your CB227 does not have have zig-zag, cannot accept twin needles. What needle sizes and thread sizes came with your machine? What are you sewing on the machine and what are your plans for it? -
Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
I cannot imagine why somebody with a machine capable of sewing with #346 or 415 bonded thread would even want to sew two #138 stitches instead. #415 thread is almost 1 mm thick. The tensile strength is almost 60 pounds per stitch. #138 thread only has 22 pounds breaking strength. Double stitched, you get two rows of 22 pounds strength. The best that can provide would be 44 pounds combined. One stitchline with #277 thread accomplishes the same strength, with less to go wrong. -
Double Threading A Needle On Cowboy Machine?
Wizcrafts replied to Divafnk's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
The 12/80 size needle is typical for cotton thread sewn into broadcloth, shirts and ladies skirts. A #12 needle cannot be used in normal leather work, or on a 441 type machine, like a CB3200. But, amazingly, it might be used by a Western boot maker (in a post or flat bed machine) to sew decorative patterns onto boot uppers with #33 bonded nylon thread. Actually, the first number is not just a US designation. It was the sizing system developed by the Singer sewing machines company, more than a century ago. A 441 type machine uses system 7x3 round point and 7x4 (794) leather point needles. The smallest size I have been able to get are #19/120. These needles are so long that the thin shank on a #19 is easily deflected and extreme caution is needed to avoid bending or breaking them. I use them to sew with #92 bonded thread, which I found to be the practical lower limit for my CB4500 and for a Cobra Class 4. Sometimes I can get #69 to sew, but it requires so many readjustments to the tensioners and check spring as to be impractical. Rather, I use other machines (patchers) for such minute thread. -
The 29k172 is the Last Of The Mohicans in the Singer patcher line. It has a removable gear box, long arm and large bobbin. The long rack inside the arm is adjustable via an eccentric inside the lower part of the body. It is used to set the timing of the hook. The take-up lever has a threaded barrel inside the trapeze on top. That adjuster affects the minimum lifting height of the take-up lever. I find this useful for getting the best stitch in thick or thin leather, or leather that has been held together with double sided tape. Thin leather without tape doesn't need much help from the adjuster. The adjuster has numbers starting at 0, representing how high the lever is forced to raise on the up stroke. Thicker or sticky leather or vinyl definitely benefits from turning it between #2 to #3.This causes more thread to be presented for the next stitch. It seems to help preserve the loop that might otherwise dissolve too soon. This adjuster on an Adler 30 is labeled Dick and Dorf (thick and thin), I think.
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Need Help Setting Up Cowboy Cb3200
Wizcrafts replied to RoosterShooter's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
When you get back to the machine, back off the top pressure adjuster screw (over the presser foot). Stop just shy of it popping out of the head. That will lessen the pressure on the foot and lift parts. If it's still hard to raise the foot via the foot pedal, something is mis-adjusted or binding in the lifter path. Sometimes just rotating the top pressure adjuster a few degrees can free up a slightly tight or binding presser bar. They hole may have been bored off center, or the presser bar could have a woop-de-doo on it up top. -
Cb3200 Stitching Advice Needed
Wizcrafts replied to RoosterShooter's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
I'm your huckleberry. -
Cb3200 Stitching Advice Needed
Wizcrafts replied to RoosterShooter's topic in Leather Sewing Machines
FYI: Most of us with big sewing machines will run test stitches every time we change thickness, leather, thread, or needles. If I'm edge sewing into a belt that is skived on the buckle end, I back off the top tension a turn until I reach the full 10 - 12 ounce area. Then I add that tension back and continue around the belt, until I reach the thin end on the flip flop. Back off a tad and stitch over the first 3 or 4 stitches. Much of this is done by feel, visual inspection after x many inches, and just getting used to your machine and the thread.