anhurset
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Everything posted by anhurset
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I'm well versed in vinegaroon, it's been my main source of black for quite a few years now and the only major issue I've had, until recently that is, have been the few times that I absolutely exhausted some batches (the number one reason I start new brew batches every summer). Recently, however, I recieved some vegtan from the Hide House that simply will not react properly, while the leather has the proper reaction on the flesh side, the grain side goes blue gray and no amount of oiling will turn it black. I've checked my brew with different leather and it's still up to snuff. I've bumped up the tannins in the new leather with soaks in strong tea, walnut dye and logwood dye. I've tried soaks of up to three hours in all three tannin bumping dyes, including one test consisting of a three hour soak in all three. I've also tried leaving both the straight as well as the tannin bumped leather in the vinegaroon for up to 30 minutes (which is WAY longer than the normal 5 minute dip I normally do), but all has been to no avail. I've never had vegetable tanned leather react this way before and I'm honestly at a loss as to what's happening here. Anyone have any idea what's going on here, or how to solve this issue?
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While heating wet leather at temperatures above normal weather conditions will harden it and extreme temperatures will damage it there are ways to speed up the drying without causing problems. In the summer I dry my pieces outside in direct sunlight, the temperature here maxes out in the high 90s, my property is also situated in a slight basin which tends to focus air currents makeing it fairly windy year round. With the heat and wind in the summer I can usually set a piece out at 9:00am and have it fully dry at around noon. During the cooler seasons I've learned to deal with longer drying times, I do what I can to speed things up a bit by placing items in warmer areas of the house, but it still usually takes around 12 hours for things to an acceptable level. In situations where I need ended an item dry ASAP during the winter I've hung things close to the ceiling over the wall mounted gas heater in my living room, it works well, I can usually cut out a third of the indoor drying time. I try every winter to find some way to hang a drying rack over that heater, but I have yet to figure out a way to do it so that I don't slam my head into it when exiting the kitchen. You can speed up oil dispersion with warmth, start with a warm item and and warm oil (warm, not hot, same as above, keep it within normal temperature ranges) and keep the item warm after applying the oil. As NV LeatherWorx stated watch your oiling on thinner leathers, I never oil both sides unless I'm working with 10oz or above, it's just not needed and you'll likely ruin the item by over saturation.
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I was simply attempting to curtail people misinterpreting your statement about the bubbles as a gauge for neutralizing, as to the color issue with vinegaroon you will note that I also suggested that it could have been due to a weak mixture.And yes, it does seem that price is subjective, not everyone lives close enough to a leather supplier to avoid the HLF, also not all leather workers have the room to devote to a spray area. For me it's easier to drop an item into my vinegaroon bucket and set the timer to five minutes. Waiting for things to dry is an integral part of leather work, if a customer can wait for me to hand stitch a piece then they can wait for an item to dry properly. No problem. Those aren't set measurements though, the strength of the vinegar in your vinegaroon may call for some adjustments.
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The only time I've had vinegaroon turn brown was on a bad hide, the surface disintegrated and the leather took on a dark brown color. I thought it was the vinegaroon that caused the problem until I had a similar reaction with spirit dye on the same hide. The only other issue I've had with vinegaroon was a batch which I essentially depleted of its iron which gave a very dark brown color with a blue cast to it and it was fairly obvious that the color was off before oiling. That depleted batch is the reason I always keep a couple of jugs brewing, just in case. Those bubbles aren't an acceptable guide for the neutralizer, as stated above by Twinoaks, leather has a slightly acidic ph, if you wait until those bubbles stop you've damaged the leather. I guess price is subjective? I can pay $45+ for a gallon of dye and then pay the $25 HLF on top of the shipping, then spend two+ hours dying, buffing and sealing. Or I can buy a gallon of vinegar, a pack of 0000 steel wool and a box of baking soda (total cost $8) put maybe an hour of work into making the dye and spend roughly 20 minutes dying and oiling each item. The vinegaroon is cheap, traditional and effective, yes there can be complications at times, but based on the mountains of "help me I can't dye" posts on this forum, spirit and oil dyes have issues too.
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I use warm water to neutralize, as close to body temperature as I can get it, it helps the baking soda dissolve and seems to keep it more evenly suspended in the water. For most of my projects I use the same 6 quart bucket to neutralize in and I use a heaping tablespoon of baking soda, an actual measuring spoon tablespoon. I don't really time how long I leave things in the neutralizer, usually I'm dying multiple things at once, as I remove each piece from the vinegaroon I allow the excess to run off then place it the in the neutralizer and remove the previous piece, I would guess each piece stays in around 30-40 seconds. I mainly use 5-6oz and 7-8oz leather, if I'm working with thinner or thicker weights I'll adjust the soak time accordingly, but I never go over a full minute. I rinse everything at once following the order that the pieces were removed from the neutralizer. I prefer rinsing in hot water, the neutralizer leaves a "slick" residue on the leather and I find that the hot water removes it faster. I've never had success with oiling while still wet or damp, I always get the best results by oiling after it's completely dry. The few times that I have oiled while damp I've had to go back a few days later and re-oil. The best way to get rid of the walnut smell is heat and sunlight, setting the piece(s) in a warm sunny spot for a few days will take the smell down to a level that is more acceptable. The smell will eventually go away on its own, it takes around 4-6 weeks, but sunlight and heat will speed it up.
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I'm sure there's some overly complicated equation for determining thread length, but most of us use some variation of the seam length measurement. I work mainly in 5-6 oz and 7-8 oz, for saddle stitching I consistently rely on 5X the seam length, unless I'm sewing a seam shorter than 6", then I'll bump it up to 6X the length. Regardless of what you use, 4X ,5X ,6X, etc, you'll find that the longer your seam the more thread you'll have left over and the shorter the seam the more you'll need.
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I'm always happy to share whatever information I can. I use extra virgin olive oil, whatever brand is cheapest. I've found that I get the best colors by applying oil until it starts to come through the back, don't just drench it in oil though, there's a fine line here between just enough and too much. I apply the oil in layers with a few hours between for absorption, once I start seeing the oil come through the back I stop and let it set over night to allow the oil to migrate through the leather. If you don't give the oil time to move through the leather you WILL over oil. Like I said above, if I oil a couple of times and the color's not where I want it I'll apply another coat or two of dye, allow it to dry and oil again. This whole thing can get finicky at times, but it usually makes for a beautiful finish.
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Have you oiled any of them yet? The color tends to darken dramatically after oiling. Instead of wetting before brush dying try pre oiling. I've found that my walnut dyes don't like being applies to damp leather, but it does like pre oiling. When I submerge I usually leave the leather in for about 30 minutes (this varies depending on the leather/dye reaction) and never less than 15. When I brush dye I do a minimum of three coats before oiling and, depending on the shade I'm going and how it looks after oiling, I may dye and oil a few more times. Also, make sure you let the leather dry before oiling, it doesn't hurt anything, but you don't get the same color reaction when it's still damp. Dealing with thus stuff is not like working with spirit/oil dyes, it often takes me days to get the color I'm looking for, especially if I'm trying to match color between multiple pieces. Thankfully vinegaroon is much easier, drop the piece in for 5 minutes, baking soda wash for a few seconds, rinse, dry and oil, oil, oil.
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There's a chance that you can be poisoned by the fumes. That being said, it requires prolonged inhalation of a massive amount of alcohol for this to occur, WAY more than you will need for 20 gallons worth of dye. The acid in the vinegaroon inhibits fungal growth, so no mold retardant is needed.
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Yes, keep metal, especially steel away from vinegaroon. If I'm doing smaller batches of vinegaroon I usually just keep it in the 1 gallon jug that the vinegar came in, it's plastic and has a lid and handlehandle and is easy to pour from. I've had more issues with contraction than expansion, and those have been mainly with vinegaroon. The more air in my dye vats the more susceptible they are to temperature fluctuations and creating a vacuum which makes lid removal difficult. I use 91%, it's what I can get in large bottles cheap. I haven't found it necessary to cook the alcohol out, the amount needed to stave off mold is a fraction of the amount of denatured alcohol found in spirit dyes, if it's not necessary to cook it out of there, then I don't see the need to do so with natural dyes. I've dyed hundreds of items in walnut dye with the alcohol left in and I've yet to see any issues.
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I second the foam! I use craft foam for initial mock ups of any large complex patterns I'm working the bugs out of, it saves a lot of work and makes altering the pattern much easier.
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Actually, the filtering of the air is a misconception, the idea was that the disease carying miasmas could be avoided by overcoming them with other smells. In the case of Plague Doctors the prefered deterent was a sponge soaked in herb infused vinegar.
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For the most part that is true, however, bark tanning via the pit method (used during the chalcolithic, bronze age and iron age) usually does radically darken the color.
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I use the double pierce method with my needles, never could get the single pierce method to work well, the only time I have issues with unthreading is on the rare occasion that I use artificial sinew.
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If you haven't trashed the batch yet then I'd keep going, everything from the walnut family will give you some type of color. The color may not be as strong or deep as what you'd get from black walnuts, but you'll get something from it.
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Every artificial sinew I've ever used has to be melted after knotting, knots alone simply will not work and even back stitching has a tendency to come undone. On the rare occasion that I use it, I'll finish with a surgeons knot, clip the tails short (1/8" or less), hit the knot with a lighter and then press it flat with the metal shroud on the lighter.
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We get some wormy ones down here at times, mostly when it stays warm a bit later into the year, it's rare though. I'm sure that the whole, unhusked but would work, but every set of dye instructions I've read have all said to husk them, it takes 15 minutes to do a 5 gallon bucket full so I've seen no reason not to. Logically speaking husking them makes sense, you expose more surface area to the liquid which allows the dye/stain to form faster. I didn't think about the squirrel issue, the squirrel population in my area is very small, we've got a lot of coyotes and stray cats in this area and it keeps the population down. If you've got squirrel issues then yeah, take the necessary steps to guard against them.
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You need to husk the nuts, by removing the husk you expose more surface area and speed up you dying process. I assume that a useable dye could be made without peeling them, but I'd imagine it would at least double, if not triple the boil time. Every recipe I've found says to husk the nuts for best results. Yes, you'll need to add water to the boil from time to time. I can't really the you how much or how often, if the level looks too low ( less than half the liquid you started with) add water, but don't take it quite up to your original water line, you're wanting the dye thicker than your starting liquid. It's really hard to screw up this dye, if you cook it too long (as long as you didn't burn it, which is very hard to do) just add water and reheat, if you didn't cook it long enough, throw it back on the stove and cook it some more.
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Dye Reaction
anhurset replied to AllanD's topic in Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners.
Yeah, the same happened to my wife about six years ago, there's a whole list of foods she can't eat now, pineapple, eggplant, etc. -
Dye Reaction
anhurset replied to AllanD's topic in Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners.
I bet you it was the glove or the lubricating powder on the glove. Latex allergies are common and well known, but some people do develop allergies to the lubricating powder used on disposable vinyl and nitrile gloves or the glove material itself. The allergy response can be sudden and appear out of nowhere, even after years of using an item with no issues an individual can suddenly become allergic to it. -
The water level can vary a bit, when I check and refill every couple of days I try to take the water to just over the nuts, but level with or slightly below is okay. Fill the pot FULL with nuts (leave an inch or so of space at the top of the pot), the more nuts you put in the fewer will float as the weight of the nuts on top will keep the lower levels submerged. I've never really experimented with temperature during the soak, I usually just fill a couple of empty kitty litter buckets and set them on the porch, but this being a fermentation/rotting process I would assume that warmer temperatures would speed up the process.
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Vinegaroon is a reagent which essentially causes a hyper oxidization to occur within the leather, it doesn't just add a color to the leather, it literally changes the leather's color. It also changes the leather in other ways by changing the fiber/callogen relationship within the leather, this causes a tightening of the fibers resulting in a tougher, more water resistant surface. So, yeah, no dye transfer. The walnut dye may give some "dye transfer" from the flesh side, it's rare but I have experienced it. It's not true dye transfer though, it's more the flesh side trapping micro particulates and then transferring them through sweat and friction. It's usually obvious when that it may happen, you'll see tiny specks of walnut on the leather and a good brushing of the flesh side after it dries is usually enough to stop it.
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Ah, thank you.
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I recently won a lot of vintage leather tools on eBay, a few overstitch wheels, a couple of Osborne stipplers and a tool I can't identify and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. The tool is 6.25" overall, with a 4.5" wooden handle, the wheel is chamfered and finely serrated, the "pin" holding the wheel on has a slot cut in it but will not turn. Except for a small number 3 there are no markings. It seems as though it's designed to make a decorative serrated edge, but it doesn't seem to work very well.
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Unless you want a sheen or gloss on the end product then there's no reason for a top finish or sealant of any type. Most natural dyes need to be oiled (sometimes copiously) to rehydrate the leather and to make the colors pop, but I've never had one transfer dye at all. On the rare occasion that I use a top finish on a project I fall back on either a wax/oil mixture or Mop N Glo (cut it 50% with water and it gives the same finish as Super Sheen). The wax mix is a 1:1 mix of beeswax and extra virgin olive oil, heat them slowly (I use a candle warmer) while stirring occasionally and allow the mixture to cool and set up, it will form a semi solid paste which melts at around body temperature. It can be applied with your fingers or a cloth, if it doesn't absorb right (it will sometimes leave an overly waxy coating) hit it with a hair dryer or heat gun.