billymac814

Yes, you and me both need a lock stitcher. The sutton 296 is a chain stitcher as well. I don't often see lock stitchers come up for sale and when they do they are ridiculously expensive. I can use mine for missiles and things like that but I need a lock stitcher to do soles with exposed stitching, I normally will send those jobs out to have them done since I can't do them well on either of these machines.

I've been drooling over these for some time now but the 6000-7000 dollar price tag of a new one put it out of my reach. I made a 12 hour round trip and picked up a used one in good condition today and got it for a price I could live with. It came on a powered stand but the motor was kind of weak so I put it on the stand that I just bought for my Adler a few months back so its set up with a servo and speed reducer. This thing will crank out about 3-4 SPI if I need it too as well as super fine stitches. So far its all I hoped it would be. I put the Adler back on its treadle and will use it as a secondary machine. I put my former secondary machine, a Singer 29k58 up for sale in the for sale section if anyone's interested.

I'd be curious to see how the Cub works. My only reservation would be that I don't know many people that have used them and I'd imagine if you have issues with them its harder to get help maybe. I dunno. I had a boss and was always pleased with it. It served its purpose and made me a bunch of cash. But you either love them or hate them.

I have two patchers for sale, well one really but I don't care which one. One is a good working 29k-58, its in good working condition, paint and decals are in fair/good condition and on a treadle, it has a new foot and new belt installed. This was my secondary patcher but I just got a Claes and I'm moving my Adler into secondary position. It is 500.00. 29-4. It is in rougher condition than the 29k58 but it does stitch. I have not used this machine other than to test it out, it is currently part of a display in my window. One of these will stay in my window. This one is 375.00 Singer 51w31 Post Bed machine. This is on a table with a clutch motor and makes a nice stitch. I don't often use it and would probably rather have the room and money. These have been selling on eBay for about 500-600 for the head alone. 450.00 for the whole thing(or just the head). Landis 88 McKay chain stitcher. I bought this when my other one hated me but we've reconciled so this one can go. New whirl wheel and works great. 750.00. Landis 12k. Was told it was rebuilt, who knows how long ago but it looks in good condition and pretty clean inside so maybe it hasn't seen much use since and has always been indoors in a heated environment. Its been a backup to mine but I haven't needed a backup so ill keep hoping I don't. 750.00 These are all heavy machinery. I could ship the post machine head or the patcher heads but other than that these will need picked up or some other arrangements made. I'm in Altoona Pa.

This machine is no longer available but I do have a Landis 88 chain stitcher for sale. I originally said 1000 but ill take 750. New whirl wheel was just installed and it works good.

Mine is a Singer 51w31. I'm not too familiar with post he'd machines so I don't know how that compares to the one you have.

I don't think his bags will be 1/2" thick, but by the sounds of it he's not going to be making just bags.

I normally run 277 on my 4500 for my holsters and belts. I can go from 138 to 346(never tried anything bigger) without changing tension. 92 takes some adjustment and I haven't tried anything thinner than that with it. I really think I'd use a 227r or something similar a whole lot more than I use the 206rb. I may just keep my eyes open for something used and keep the Consew though, it would probably cost about the same as trading in my Consew for a new 227r and since I don't really "need" it I can get by with what I have until I find the right deal on one. Plus after I get the Claes patcher I'm going to move my Adler into the secondary or backup patcher and sell the Singer I have that is my current backup so I can use that money towards something, I also have a post machine that I don't often use that I could probably do without.

I still don't think those machines would work out for you. They would be good for the bags that aren't too heavy and things like that but they are not heavy stitchers and won't be suitable for heavy weight leathers. It helps to have a lightweight machine like those you mentioned and a heavy stitcher for things like holsters, thicker belts, saddle bags or sheaths. If you do end up going with one of those you'd probably want one that's complete or figure in another 400-500 dollars to set it up with a stand/servo and speed reducer.

I have found the same thing with prices. A lot of people equate quality to price so if something's too cheap they think there's a reason its too cheap. The same thing goes with turnaround times I think. If you have a fairly long( but reasonable) wait time they realize that your work is sought after by a lot of other people as well. On the other hand there's the people who want it cheap and fast, they can go pound sand. I do have a rush service so I don't mind those who want it quick and are willing to pay for it. I have a brick and motor store but still about 90% or more of what I make is sold online, my local customers are a bit on the cheap side but I can get their money in other ways like retail items, leather care products, etc and I do a lot of repair work for them as well. That's really the beauty of the Internet, nobody with an Internet connection should feel limited by their local market.

That was very well put but here's my question in regards to that. Do you price an item higher because you feel the customer is more likely to pay a higher price? I think I've probably done that unconsciously a little but usually my price is my price. I will say that sometimes I think a customer may not be someone who would spend a lot on something or that they couldnt afford it and they are always the ones who seem to bust out their wallet.

Yes those machines won't come close to sewing an inch, probably not even a half of an inch. Even the much larger 441 clones like the cowboys 3500 and 4500 will be maxed out at an inch. Bigger than that and you're going to get into BIG bucks on a machine. If you need to stitch under an inch but begone say 3/8" you'll want to get a 441 type machine.

The hand vs machine stitching as far as pricing goes is sort of hard to figure. When I was hand stitching I really just charged my price, I don't think it was higher because I hand stitched, it was just what it was. When I got a sewing machine I certainly didn't lower my prices but I took down the "hand sewn" from my website. To be honest no one ever missed it. If someone requested it to be handsewn specifically I would definitely charge more for that now. Hourly really only works on custom stuff and even then its tough because people will hold you to a quote and they like to know what its going to cost ahead of time, it can be used as a guideline though to determine the price. You can't charge someone more because you were working slow that day or have inefficient ways of doing things AND you don't want to take a pay cut when you upgrade machinery and tools or streamline your workflow. I have an hourly rate I'd like to achieve on average, some jobs I end up losing a little and others I make out better but I never except in some special cases charge by the hour. My main reason for that is because I get paid ahead of time with very few exceptions. That I've learned the hard way.

Most people do it just because you can fit more thread on the bobbin. I used to do it with my Boss for two reasons, one, it was easier to just pull some 207 off of the thread stand from my Consew and wind the bobbin that way and two, I also found that the back side looked a little better so I kept doing it that way. For the most part now though I use the same top and bottom, there are occasions when Ill use a smaller thread on the bottom but not to much really.

That's what I was thinking too actually. bob keeps talking me out of it though. I do use the Consew for sewing zippers in jackets and some large patches on vests/ jackets but I feel I could do that all on a cylinder machine with a flat bed attachment. I'm not too worried about the smaller bobbin size because I'm not doing big production work and I just don't use it that often, most of the things I make and the things I repair need a cylinder arm machine which leaves me to either use the 4500 or a patcher. The 4500 works for most things but its too big for some without making a lot of adjustments to use the thinner thread sizes and you can't use leather point needles for thinner threads. I could just wait and buy one outright and keep the 206 but there's some other things higher on the priority list so I'd be waiting a while. I'm picking up a Claes patcher this weekend which is going to tie up my machine money. Bob doesn't have one yet so I have some time to think about it.

A grand just won't get you what you need to do the job right. The closest to that price range would be a used Boss. They are very capable little machines for stitching holsters. I probably stitch a couple thousand holsters on mine before I got the cowboy 4500. I was always pretty pleased with it and the stitches looked good on both sides. If I were in your situation I'd either spend 2695 on the 4500? Or look for a used boss for under 1000. I don't think that I'd personally want to deal with the sharp feed dogs on my holsters using a 2500 or 3650hd. It seems with the Boss you either love them or hate them, I pretty much loved mine, up to the point I tested out a Cowboy anyway.

Could be there's not enough tension up top to pull it back up which causes that to happen.

How much?

You might as well get the set. By the time you choose two or three you're pretty much a few bucks away from the set anyway. I didnt need them all either but it wasnt worth getting just a couple. I have a template set too and it is ok but I'd rather have a punch any day. I would like to know how the pointed ones are because I could use some of those in the smaller sizes. I normally use round for small straps and pointed for belts.

Yes I would hope if you were doing 100 a day you'd have some type of die to cut and punch those. I think they are well worth the money. I would be interested to see the pointed ones and how good they are shaped and if they are symmetrical or not. I have the good ones in sizes I use a lot so these will be perfect for the sizes I don't use often, its better than cutting them for sure.

Heavy as it repetitive use all day long. They should be fine going through even two layers of 8 oz. I would recommend keeping them sharp so you don't have to hit them any harder than necessary. They really are decent when you figure they are 7.00/piece, if you're using them a couple times a day of imagine they will last a long time. If you're making 100 belts a day you'd probably want to go with something a little more substantial.

I shoot for 60-80/hr for my work. In not working out of my house though so I have more overhead so the first 2500-4000 that comes in each month goes towards operating costs and materials. I think the one thing that I've learned doing this professionally is what jobs make money and what jobs don't. I used to do a lot more tooled jobs like motorcycle seats and things like that but I can't get what I need to out of them. If it takes me 25-30 hours to do an entire seat I would need to get in excess of 1500 at minimum, I doubt that's going to happen but I can make 50-60 holsters in about 50-60 hours and make the hourly rate I need to. There's also quite a bit of money in repairs which I started doing too. Some jobs may take just a couple minutes and I can charge 10-15 bucks which makes for a decent take. I look at things much different now than I did before I depended on this to eat. I still take on the occasional job that I know I won't make much on but those are ones that interest me and I do it for more fun than money and I think that is what a lot of people in this craft do. I seem a figure that said less than 4% of leatherworkers make a living from this, of course who knows where that figure comes from, it could be made up for all I know. There's another thread somewhere that's called something like "where's the money at" or something like that, its probably a good read for anyone interested in trying to make a go at this.

You can use masters cement to glue the soles if its rubber to leather. It really depends on the sole you use but most Vibram soles just get glued on to a midsole that's stitched on. There are some that can be stitched on to the welt, these are usually the thinner type soles. The glue I use is called Renia Colle de Collogne and it is stronger than the Masters All purpose is. Masters Max bond is good too. If you're using the Vibram Gumlite you'll need to use a primer first. Hope that helps some.

Here's a picture of them, I did spend a few minutes cleaning them up. They were very raw looking when they came.

I received my punches today in the mail. They are shorter than I expected them to be but they do cut and came reasonably sharp. For some reason the smallest one seems to be considerably nicer looking than the rest. I do not think these would be great for real heavy use, they are no where near as substantial as the Osborne type are but for the price they are good for light use and sure beats cutting. Overall I'm satisfied with them. I also got the brass tip for doing hot edges that goes on a soldering iron, I haven't tried it yet but it looks nice and should work just fine.