Tugadude

Some respect and have an affinity for handmade stuff, some don't. That will always be the case. Some will even pay a bit more for handmade or handcrafted product and that will always be the case. Some do it to support and encourage the maker. Some do it because they truly perceive the item as "better than". I am the sort that tries to support small businesses and will pay a little more to get something local as opposed to ordering off of Amazon. Some think that's just stupid. And I say let them think what they want, it isn't their money. Regarding comments about Nigel Armitage's book, I disagree. He is presenting the "traditional" methods and of course in order to do traditional leatherwork there is stuff to purchase and dues to pay. The book isn't the one he intended to write. That book will come out eventually. Here are Nigel's own words from a post on this forum... "It is not yet the book I want to write, neither is it the book I have been asked to write. I was asked to write what was, in essence, a craft-based project book but there are many like that already out there, so we came to a compromise. There are of course projects and the techniques focus on the more modern tools rather than the traditional so pre-pricking of holes is the theme with very little awl work. I think trying to get over all the details of the traditional saddle stitch would take a book in itself. The projects are in more detail than perhaps they expected, but hopefully, I have found the balance between what they wanted to hear against what I wanted to write. I am by no stretch of the imagination a writer, I talk too much and go off-topic too often, it has been an education." I owe a huge debt to Mr. Armitage and his videos. They have helped countless people.

Apparently there was some negativity detected in my post about Mr. Lentz. This is all I said..."You just pretty much described all of the stuff put out by Mr. Lentz! Are they "handmade"? You betcha!" I didn't intend to make any sort of statement, positive or negative about his work. I merely pointed out the truth, that his work is exactly as described by Klara. If you read something negative or critical into it, that's on you.

OK, thanks! I didn't even see the ebay link. Should have looked more closely!

Is that a rendering of a goat on the coat's tag? Maybe it is goat leather?

To some people, yes. Even if the quality isn't as good. Some appreciate things that are made largely by hand. I say largely, due to all of the factors we've discussed in this thread. Most of us will use a machine at some point in our work, although most of my work, 99% of it in fact, is done with no power tools or machines (riveters, setters, etc.). I'm a hobbyist and while I am capable of making large, complicated items, I don't feel the need to churn them out fast because I'm not putting food on my table with my work. A grocery near me is beginning to sell "artisan soaps" and they display them in the main aisle near checkout. The soaps smell good and they are relatively attractive. But as far as soaps are concerned, they are just OK. And they are probably 5X the price of mass-produced, commercial soaps. And they are selling. If they said 'Proctor & Gamble' on them, I wonder if the results would be the same?

You just pretty much described all of the stuff put out by Mr. Lentz! Are they "handmade"? You betcha!

Thanks for linking that video Chuck. Very interesting. I would classify their boots as handmade. Regardless of the fact that machines are also used.

Nigel Armitage is a member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen. Perhaps he will see this thread and comment on the organization. Having said that, here is some verbiage from the guild's website: The Guild emblem recognises businesses that are approved Master Craftsman. Following our application process, including a visit by an experienced Guild of Master Craftsmen Assessor, approved businesses can join the Guild and be able to show the Guild emblem on their marketing. This recognition will ensure you get the work you expect every time by a skilled and experienced Guild member. To find a Guild of Master Craftsmen member simply visit findacraftsman.com. You can search by trade, post code or even name. There you will be able to see images of their work, reviews and find details to help you choose. Don’t forget the Guild’s experienced Conciliation team can only be used with Guild members. Based on the following, it doesn't sound like just a "marketing thing". Members of the Guild of Master Craftsmen are required to maintain our Aims and Objectives, or membership will be revoked. These are: To bring together all artisans engaged in a craft, art, trade, profession or vocation, in order to safeguard the interests of both craftsmen and the public. To ensure that the minimum qualifications for membership preserve the high standards of The Guild by excluding unskilled tradesmen. To publicise these high standards through national and local media, thus increasing public awareness of the ideals and aims of The Guild and its members. To promote to the public the trading assets of its members, their honour, integrity, professional expertise, high standards of workmanship and the value for money which they offer. To provide clear identification and recognition for members, in order to enable the public to distinguish them from unskilled tradesmen who try to pass themselves off as master craftsmen, and so to attract and direct work to members of The Guild. To assist all members and to protect them against the damaging and devaluing activities of the unskilled, against bureaucratic discrimination, against penal taxation and adverse legislation. Equally, to protect the public by instilling in our members a greater sense of responsibility, alerting them to the national importance of the services they render, monitoring these standards to ensure that The Guild’s high standards are being maintained, and by encouraging members to always strive for excellence. To encourage an interchange of views amongst members, to unite these views and to bring them to the attention of the Government and local authorities in order to safeguard the livelihood and welfare of members and their dependants. To constitute a pressure group to seek the support of one or more Members of Parliament to make sure that someone speaks out for the interests of Guild members where it matters most. To promote continual research within the craft, trade, art, profession or vocation in which members are engaged, thus benefitting both members and the public. To foster learning amongst apprentices and students in order to perpetuate the survival, evolution and success of their particular craft. To promote sponsorship of The Guild by persons, firms and organisations, whether by financial support, by endorsement of the activities of The Guild, or by patronage.

I recently saw a local ad for cowboy boots using this sort of fish leather. It was quite attractive looking. Makes me wonder...do you have to keep fish leather from getting wet?

I had never heard of Wheeler but I looked them up and apparently they've been in business since 1972. That bike is very nice. The frame looks like it was made very well. The Shimano 600 tri-color components are sought after by collectors looking to complete builds. I have a complete set on a Waterford bicycle and it is very nice. Good score!

Shimano 600 is the 2nd tier from the top, Dura Ace, and was later named Ultegra. They are quality shifters. If they are sluggish, before opening them up, squirt some lubricating oil into them and move the shifters. They might just have gummy residue in them. Otherwise they can be repaired, but it is quite difficult from what I hear. They aren’t designed to be serviceable.

I am active on a bicycle forum and I noticed this photo today. Craftsman built is a new one on me. By the way, I own a vintage Raleigh and also a Carlton, which was constructed in the Worksop factory. Both are very nice.

This is from the bigcommerce.com article that Chuck linked to: Other definitions include the aspect of craftsmanship and imply that a handmade item is typically of higher quality than one mass produced by a machine. Because humans are not machines, many retailers remind customers that handmade products may feature inconsistencies or slight flaws. Those are signs that the product wasn't mass produced. The underlining is mine. So which is it? Is handmade better or worse? If you read those sentences, you won't get an answer because they contradict each other, or seem to anyway. But to take a real example, consider a knife blade. A machine can churn out thousands in short order and they all will be nearly identical, as identical as it is possible to be. A craftsperson can make a better knife, but if they made a thousand of them there might be a wide fluctuation in sizes and shapes. Or potentially so. So in that instance, yes, there are inconsistencies, but you are still getting a better knife. So the sentences don't necessarily contradict each other.

I do business with Springfield Leather Co. and have never found any of their "deals" to be a disappointment. Usually I find that what they offer is beyond expectations. I'm sure the box will have a lot of nice, usable leather. All of the comments/reviews on the 20 lb. box were very favorable, except for one, and I think that person is probably a troll. I doubt seriously that SLC would send out a box of "quarter" sized pieces of leather. If you are going to intentionally make a negative review at least make it believable. Some have way too much time on their hands.

Interesting. That just goes to show that although we both speak English, the words can have vastly different meanings.

In the U.S. we use the term manufacturer, but it doesn't carry the connotation of a small company. It really doesn't have any definition of size attached to it.

People are easily manipulated. That's why companies spend billions of dollars on marketing. Most people don't NEED much, but they are made to WANT. Whether it be a bigger television or a better phone with multiple cameras, it seems the majority are seldom satisfied. And you need look no further than Apple and Samsung to see the evidence. The part about homemade is an interesting one. I would argue it is related to handmade, but I don't think too many products are marketed as homemade. I do see "home style" used a fair bit. And the "artisan" thing? I am a wet shaver and there are numerous companies calling their shaving soaps artisan. Some are good, some are not. Like many words, it really doesn't mean much anymore. Because the people behind the words often lack integrity. Not all, but most, I think.

Hey, with all of the serious crap going on we have to have a little fun.

I think there's another factor to take into account and that is the fact that marketing has ruined some words due to misuse or abuse. Does "new and improved" indicate the previous product was "old and crappy"? Or just not quite so good? Genuine leather is something we've discussed here at length. Just what does the average, uninitiated consumer believe that means? Regardless of the actual meaning. So handmade does indeed mean different things to different people, and when used inappropriately clouds the issue even further. I bought a bag of chips the other day at a local gas station. The gas station was recently rebuilt, completely. Before the construction I could buy the same product and the bag was heavier and cheaper than what they are selling today. So now I'm paying more for less. There's a name for this trend, shrinkflation. Here's a recent report on it... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grocery-prices-rise-supermarkets/

Weaving with your feet would be quite a feat.

Based on the number of threads here regarding problems with sewing machines, tension, speed, etc. I have come to the conclusion that hand stitching is a good choice for me. Of course I am a hobbyist, so that matters.

This is an interesting discussion. The fact that this isn't the first time it has come up on this forum is proof of that. There's an interesting underlying thing going on that I think is worth noting. And it boils down to humanity versus machines. Someone mentioned a video where someone is claiming their work is handmade yet there is a clicker press in the background. In reality, their work is probably a combination of the two. Some pieces that are repetitive are made on the press while some are made by hand. So the work is a combination of the two. I remember when one of my kids was in school they took a field trip to an auto plant. The manufacturer was General Motors and we were to be given a look at the assembly process. The class had been studying robotics and we were going to get a guided tour of a portion of the assembly line that utilized robots to a large degree. I can tell you it was fascinating. I forget the actual numbers, but the guide explained to us that one of the robots was able to be programmed to install an adhesive to within 1/2000th of an inch in space and do it consistently. The robot moved to an exact position each time a windshield arrived on the line, laying down a perfect bead of sealant/adhesive every time. I suppose the only need for human intervention was turning the thing on and making sure the adhesive didn't run out. Machines can do some amazing things, some of them much better than humans can. There are also things that just don't make sense, like creating a clicker die for every single piece of leather you're ever going to cut. Where would you even put them if you could afford them? While the term handmade may or may not be accurate in all instances, I still believe there is a connotation that when something is handmade, its construction was done largely by humans and it was made one-at-a-time, and not part of a mass production. The quality control of mass production often comes at the end of the process. Of course it depends on what it is that is being produced. There are items that have QC all along the way, but some things are either right or not and they don't know until it is finished. With handmade items there is a sense that the QC process begins the moment the worker chooses a piece of leather for the project. And it never stops. It is an ongoing thing and when the product is finished, it is right. At least that's my way of looking at it. In my career I've been fortunate to have visited numerous manufacturing plants. Some of the equipment I've seen was simply incredible. The things that can be done would amaze most people, who have no idea how things are accomplished. That's why there are popular television programs where they show how things get made. Because it is often surprising and interesting. Anyway, I don't think I helped to distinguish handmade any more than anyone else. But when I hear that something is handmade, I just know that it conjures up certain thoughts and emotions which guide how I perceive it. In the end, is handmade better? Depends. Depends on the hands I suppose.

Words have the meaning we pour into them. That meaning is based on how we view things. Made in the U.S.A. has a legal definition such that certain requirements must be met in order to qualify to receive that description. Now we have 'Assembled in the U.S.A.' and I guess that also has legal ramifications. Whether the use of the term handmade conjures up the intent the user intended is out of their control. At least it mainly is. This response was handmade, and made for the subject at hand.

On a related note, Springfield Leather Co. offers fish skins of various types.

Perhaps you don’t. Make holes in one layer, then apply the welt and extend the holes through the welt. Then apply the other side over the welt and then pierce through the whole assembly. Takes care, but it can be done. Other options include using a drill press and awl, or drilling through the project with a drill bit. Not my preference, but some favor it.